@erafox No, no, please. Stay. You contribute so much to the conversation...

Just a heads up, the members of the TTW and F4 New Vegas discord have been defending the frontier team an awful lot recently(reminder, they're confirmed pedophiles, degenerates and all around toxic human beings, not to mention awful modders, save for a few individuals). While TTW is pretty much complete, and despite the last update being a while away, it is still completely playable, so even if the devs pull a tgspy right now it won't be a big issue for most people. F4NV is more worrying, however, as I and plenty of other people have been looking forward to that mod for a while now, while I hope it will release successfully, the recent developments have me worried.
Even more worrying is that the F4CW(the sister project that's focusing on remaking fallout 3) and F4NV discord had a falling out, from the looks of it mostly due to toxic behavior of the lead of the latter. They also made a worrying statement that they will "fix the game" to their liking. Normally, that would be a good thing, as NV is notoriously unfinished and unpolished, but considering the state of their discord server and how "woke" they are, that could very well mean, for example, removing "problematic" themes, content, or even censoring the game, maybe even removing the entire legion path for being "literal trump supporters", or something foolish along those lines. Keep in mind, this was literally tgspy's excuse for not letting you side with the enclave in frontier(despite the enclave there being horribly written, but being able to side with them would still redeem the mod somewhat). I hope nobody here is holding the breath for that mod anymore, as they could very well be disappointed, just like with the frontier.

In other news, while not related to fallout, a project of similar scope, known as "Beyond Skyrim", for TESV, is having similar issues with their mod. To be more specific, their morrowind team(they are aiming to make every region playable) is full of truly detestable people, that also aim to make their  content "less problematic", mostly by turning every other character there gay or trans and starting witch hunts against anyone who disagrees with them. I am not privy on elder scrolls lore, but from what people told me, they are butchering it fit their LGBT agenda, even going as far as hiding gay propaganda(written in the fictional language of the game) on the texture of furniture. That aside, the work doesn't seem to be progressing at all on any of the regions, least of all morrowind, so even if the mod comes out, I would not look forward to it. From what I hear, the only part of that mod that might ever be finished might be cyrodil(the oblivion region) and the daggerpoint region as these don't have as many troons, or at least seem to have more competent modders on their team.  I don't know enough about those games to tell you more, but I'm sorry if you were a fan of morrowind specifically and looking forward to this mod. As for me, I seriously hope this kind of drama doesn't spread towards other projects I am looking forward to(Miami being chief among them)

As for frontier itself, the devs supposedly started development on a reboot of the mod. I have no idea if any of their work is even salvageable or if they are just saying this to save face, but even if that's the case, we will only be hearing about it in 7 years

@Sonichu_fanboy A lot of these modders, who are otherwise really talented people, live in a bubble. They are surrounded by people who agree with them and websites (like nexus) that shield them from criticism because they make them money. Of course everyone who criticizes the Frontier is a bad-faith troll. What other reason could they have? There's nothing objectionable about underage porn, it's just harmless fun. America was never intended to be underage - she talks like a kid and acts like a kid and everyone calls her a kid but we put a note on her that says she's 18 so she's clearly 18. And there's nothing fetishistic about her dialogue, why would anyone think that? People talk about their stinky feet and call others "master" all the time. You'd know if you worked in construction. It's just normal stuff. And those lizards? Well, there are talking deathclaws in Fallout 2, so obviously it's lore-friendly. They are clearly the same thing. Oh, you don't like it? Guess what, you parasite? you get banned, because we are above criticism.


Now, sarcasm aside, I think that anybody out there that actually thinks they'll ever get F4NV is deluding themselves. Back when I still played Skyrim, I heard about the Beyond Skyrim Project. The project had been going on for a while, and while they hadn't been able to release pretty much anything, they were still talking as if it was a reality and would be ready soon. That was 2015 - 2016, and it was already old. Now here we are and they still swear it's in development and the only thing I can see they managed to release is Bruma.  

Those massive mods NEVER work. A group of people working together for fun don't have the structure or the motivation to see something that massive through.

NV will never be redone in the Fallout 4 engine, people just have to deal with that fact. Or at best, they'll release a small playable area. Remember, they weren't even covering the entire thing, just the base game without DLC, and they still haven't been able to release anything. It's just not going to happen.

Modding Drama, Modding Drama Never Changes
Discord sure does change people, on the other hand. Never met someone who was super into it that wasn't a pedophile/degenerate/furry/mentally ill in some way
That site really does change people, always for the worst. I hope Miami and other similar projects focus and hurry up, lest they end up with the same baggage like the frontier and f4nv team
speaking of which, I will really be disappointed in them if they can't even release the base game. they literally have everything done for them already, they just need to port it over in a playable state to the F4 engine, the modders can add in or fix the rest afterwards
(And you're right, talk is cheap. CW team not only is promising DLC but they have already shown us Point Lookout footage. That project definitely has more potential to ever be released)

I would agree that the majority of these projects never come to fruition. The amount of work, talent, and coordination needed are things that generally come from paid professionals with a regular work schedule. Just take a look at Morrowblivion and one can see how much of a snails pace a closed source volunteer project can move. The only projects I have seen to be finished to an acceptable state are OpenMW (Open source morrowind engine reimplementation) and Daggerfall Unity. Both of these were open sourced projects and the former spawned an actually decent morrowind multiplayer and a unofficial and moddable android morrowind (It's called OpenMicroWave). The difference was that these were all open-source projects that welcomed contributions from many different people.

Thankfully I got more than my fill of FNV and I do not think I could handle yet another playthrough anytime soon, new engine or not.

Discord is kind of sketch as well; they overpolice relatively harmless things whilst underpolicing certain federal offences. I only have an account for when I used to do a lot of raiding in MMOs.

Let's look at the worst, most horribly-written, unfinished mod on the nexus. I don't know how we would find it, but I bet we would come close to the worst.
Has it got several forums dedicated to people raging and raging at it? Probably not. In fact I would say no. There is, frankly, an enormous amount of trash in the modding world, and it doesn't get post after post after post raging at it.
I never saw the pedophilia stuff, but they're apparently working hard on a rewrite now and have removed a lot of the most degenerate stuff. If we have no man's sky a second chance after that horrifying, uneblievably dishonest launch, and we'll probably forgive 2077 someday (mostly) and New Vegas's launch hatred has been completely forgotten, I'd say... we can calm down and let them do their rewrite.

If cringy writing makes you mad, I can point to SO many mods with bad writing that are not absolutely despised. If furry sex makes you livid, let me show you loverslab and the endless parade of nude and sex mods (even moreso for skyrim.) Fallout 4 has literal, actual rape mods! And yet here we are, yelling at a mod that has long since removed its offending content. If you hate degeneracy, why aren't you posting and posting and posting your rage about the rape mods? Are horny lizard people really worse than that?

This isn't about the mod being bad. It isn't. Not really. It's about people's expectations getting brutally violated. Gamers and geeks in general react with rage when their expectations aren't met. The proof is right here, in posts like this. Frontier is getting hated SO badly out of proportion to its even more degenerate, even more poorly made competition for "worst mod ever."

@Sonichu_fanboy @roflcopter117 Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that social media in general is just bad for your health. There are exceptions, and it's fun if you use it correctly, but I've never met someone who is deep into social media that's a better person because of it. The only reason I have a discord account is because someone tipped me off that NickHeggo hosts some awesome mods over there. But other than that, I just don't use that site.

@Sirdanest Well, as I've said before, people are going to talk about what goes on in the community, that's normal. I think that it's fair to look at the Frontier and ask why so much attention was put into it while there's other content that's just as bad or even worse. The Frontier just achieved a level of notoriety that other mods don't get and made people pay attention. We all know about sites like loverslab, but there's a tacit understanding of the kind of site it is and the kind of mods you get there. People don't like being deceived, and if you are going to get them excited about something and then deliver something completely different and filled with objectionable content, then guess what? There's going to be controversy. It also doesn't help that they antagonized the community so much.

Now, if you're going to point to other mods that also have questionable content, what I can tell you is, believe me, I would love to be more strict with what's uploaded to Nexus, not just in terms of getting rid of trash content but I think a little more oversight could greatly improve the quality of the site. What can I tell you? It's just not my call.

I think though, the examples you're using are very different from the Frontier. Having seen the controversy and the people associated with it, who they are and how they conduct themselves, I have no faith this is ever getting "fixed". I think that's extremely naïve.

For the Sneedclave!!! But seriously it was as "LORE FRIENDLY" as sex addicted lizard people. But there were cool mechanics in the mod i'll give it that

@shocktrooper666 There are two things it did right: cars and Skitters.

gavin gold wrote:

@shocktrooper666 There are two things it did right: cars and Skitters.

I agree my thoughts exactly.

I was fine with being another Grunt, like the mission where you're setting up land mines.

but then they HAD to make you into some god damn hero.


if they didn't have all the weird shit like lizard people, Deathclaw sex, and the option to enslave America, it probably could have been an amazing mod.


I really think they threw the supposed pedo guy under the bus, so they could pretend they didn't know what the guy was doing in his freetime, they had to know.

@Itry3221 There's nothing "supposed" about it. He is a pedo. But they absolutely threw him under the bus. They let him join knowing what he was into, and when things started going south, they blamed him for stuff other people did.

Sonichu_fanboy wrote:

They also made a worrying statement that they will "fix the game" to their liking. Normally, that would be a good thing, as NV is notoriously unfinished and unpolished, but considering the state of their discord server and how "woke" they are, that could very well mean, for example, removing "problematic" themes, content, or even censoring the game, maybe even removing the entire legion path for being "literal trump supporters", or something foolish along those lines. Keep in mind, this was literally tgspy's excuse for not letting you side with the enclave in frontier(despite the enclave there being horribly written, but being able to side with them would still redeem the mod somewhat). I hope nobody here is holding the breath for that mod anymore, as they could very well be disappointed, just like with the frontier.

This is completely untrue, the F4NV team has stated time and time again that they will be including everything in the base game and the only thing they're looking to "change" is the gameplay systems that F4 has improved like Power Armor, gunplay, or lacked such as RPG mechanics, skills/perks/traits, etc.

They've said they're not changing anything about the story to their liking or even changing dialogue like popular mods such as Brave New World has. I do agree that the team seems to be made up of a lot of assholes and their Discord server is moderated by no lives who police shit 24/7 because it makes them feel powerful, but they're not changing the base game choices or story or faction paths at all.

I don't have faith in the mod though simply off how they treat their community.

I wanted to try this mod (I really did) But after seeing so much negativity on it I couldn't bring myself to try it. It looks good but from what I understand that's pretty much it. IT LOOKS GOOD. I want to try but sadly my gaming time is kinda screwy these last few months and it may be a year or more before I can. Plus I need to figure out how to get New Vegas working again.

I look forward to adding this to my load order to see what all the drama is about. I can't think of too many other mods this ambitious that actually released. I recognized some of the names that were working on it too, such as weijiesen who did amazing work on EVE, EXE, and IMPACT. That alone makes me want to try it.

@DrCube Sure, go ahead. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Yeah the lizard ppl thing was super poo poo ca ca. Then I had seen the reviews come in and boy is it disappointing to see what became of this mod.

the only thing that had me interested in The Frontier was the driving gameplay. it's very nice and well made. but the rest of the mod was indeed a kick in the nuts. I only wish a standalone for this.

MrNewVegas wrote:

Sonichu_fanboy wrote:

They also made a worrying statement that they will "fix the game" to their liking. Normally, that would be a good thing, as NV is notoriously unfinished and unpolished, but considering the state of their discord server and how "woke" they are, that could very well mean, for example, removing "problematic" themes, content, or even censoring the game, maybe even removing the entire legion path for being "literal trump supporters", or something foolish along those lines. Keep in mind, this was literally tgspy's excuse for not letting you side with the enclave in frontier(despite the enclave there being horribly written, but being able to side with them would still redeem the mod somewhat). I hope nobody here is holding the breath for that mod anymore, as they could very well be disappointed, just like with the frontier.

This is completely untrue, the F4NV team has stated time and time again that they will be including everything in the base game and the only thing they're looking to "change" is the gameplay systems that F4 has improved like Power Armor, gunplay, or lacked such as RPG mechanics, skills/perks/traits, etc.

They've said they're not changing anything about the story to their liking or even changing dialogue like popular mods such as Brave New World has. I do agree that the team seems to be made up of a lot of assholes and their Discord server is moderated by no lives who police shit 24/7 because it makes them feel powerful, but they're not changing the base game choices or story or faction paths at all.

I don't have faith in the mod though simply off how they treat their community.

Would it be faster if F4NV just use Brave New World mod to speed thing up with new voice acting since it doesn't really use the vanilla asset from the original game.

Are there any efforts being made to salvage weapons, armor and the open world of the mod? As much as people made fun of the mod for it's writing and story(and still do, myself included), these assets are a gold mine. I wouldn't mind seeing an "empty portland" mod that just gives you the worldspace to play around with as a base, with the modders adding in the rest later. Especially since the person behind the vehicles framework already released the mod as standalone a while back(not sure if it is still up, tho, as that particular individual was rather petty. If not, someone is bound to have saved it, in either case)