So a couple topics on here got me thinking, what if the Courier died in Goodsprings Cemetery? I personally feel the Legion would've won the 2nd Battle at Hoover Dam and slowly take over the Mojave. Whether they'd be able to hold it for long (given Caesar's health) is another story. Thoughts?

Yes man would of won. Benny and Yes Man were planning to use the chip anyways so it would of happened if not for the courier.

I don't think so, Benny snook into Fortification Hill to activate the bunker (assuming you don't kill him in the Tops) and got caught, Caesar ended up getting the Platinum Chip because of that.

@kalitx oh yes you are right so then it would be the legion I suppose? I have not played nv in a long time.

Haha np man, I recently started to play it again, wish Bethesda had expanded the Legion quest line, would've been interesting experiencing the challenges the Legion had to face to prepare for the battle.

Legion. First things first. I'm not biased. I like NCR more personally, but when looking at FNV in-depth, Legion has the upper hand for the second battle of Hoover Dam. For example, Legion has done the following:

- Established foothold on cottonwood cove.
- Taken Nelson.
- Ravaged Nipton.
- Irradiated camp search light.
- And even destroyed at least one ranger station.

NCR also has Caesar's allies on their flank, Fiends and Great Khans. Almost every major NCR locations has issues, such as the mole in camp McCarran, the misfits as well as Chief Hanlon at camp Golf, various issues at Bitter Springs etc. Legion does not have any of these. Excluding Caesar's brain tumor, the most you can do is better their already superior chances by fixing up their howitzer and such.

How i think it's going to play out: The Legion will take over Hoover Dam, though the main bulk of NCR forces as well as the amount of Rangers won't make it easy. NCR retreats due to casualties and Legion gives chase, eventually pushing them as far as the Mojave outpost, if not completely outside from Mojave. New Vegas will be left alone against the Legion and will fall, despite heavy resistance from the non-upgraded securitrons. Caesar starts to turn the city into his Rome as well as planning an invasion of California. The end result, Legion wins.

What happens after that, though?

What i think: Caesar dies from his condition before the invasion of California begins. Legion's vital link is missing and soon the whole faction falls into series of internal conflicts and eventually degrades into nothing, or drastically transforms into different smaller factions. California is safe, but NCR can only dream of returning to Mojave any time soon, as their losses were too great. Legion won't be itself afterwards. House (if he hasn't been killed already) as well as New Vegas are left to the elements and dangers of Mojave, without protection. No one has control over Mojave, Vegas or Hoover Dam. End result: Everyone loses.

@"Finnisher" I totally agree with mostly everything you said, the only difference for me is that I think after Caesar died the NCR would attempt to take back New Vegas, they would sense the weakness in the Legion since there would be tons of internal conflicts and like the courier said to Lanius they would struggle to hold the East and West together (which was why he retreated).

In the time after the NCR loses Vegas they would get stronger General Oliver is known to be a bad tactician, he hates the Rangers although they play a vital role in the NCR so after they lose NCR would blame Oliver and have him replaced with like Colonel Hsu (if he survived) if not there are others more competent. Since Chief Hanlon would still be in charge of the Rangers (He never got discovered as the intel leak) he probably would feel guilt ridden and knowing the Legion was in disarray attempt to redeem himself by helping lead the NCR through the rangers to victory along with the new General.

NCR still has numbers in California so although they are weakened, they still have a strong fighting force and their biggest issue in New Vegas was the debt they were accumulating, but that would be erased with the Legion taking over the strip so they would now have the ability to borrow enough caps to supply their fighting force.

This is all speculation, but personally I feel the NCR losing the 2nd Battle at Hoover Dam is a good thing for them because they'd come back stronger and better than ever.

I would say the NCR, because I think they have a better form of leadership and tech than the legion does. I don't think House would have too much power without the courier.

ceaser would have won because he has a major advantge compared to mr house and ncr, if bennny did his plan he would die by the legion and the legion would have the chip GAME OVER!

Nobody. Violence does not have winners, only losers..

But war.. War never changes.

PS: Ceasar would destroy the other facions, and this is why:
1. New California Republic is spread way to thin with their wars against all and everything that moves (Fiends, Khans, Jackals, Vipers, Scorpions, Ceasar and so on). and they send out their soldiers without the required supplies and training, because they simply have nothing to spare (camp Golf will give you this information).

2. While Robert House does have a small army of securitrons at the Strip area, he would never acuire the platinum chip to give his securitrons the upgrade and extra troops, because:

Story spoiler:

So House is simply not strong enough to hold back the hordes of legionaires, once they will break through the NCR.

3. The Brotherhood of Steel had to retreat after their big defeat at HELIOS ONE and went in hiding. With their scared AF Elder who doesn't want to lift the lockdown, they won't be able to recover properly. They will be nothing more than sitting ducks for the Legion (But I do think Caesar will have massive losses once he attacks, BoS has the power armor and the heavy weapons but lack the numbers).

4. The Boomers tend to stay to themselfes, and don't have the ambition to rule the Mojave. So if Caesar leaves them alone, they don't turn hostile. Maybe Caesar can cut them a deal: Help him to conquer the Mojave and they remain unharmed.

5. The Great Khans are nothing more than a small band of chem dealing/taking rogues compared to the mighty legion. The leagion will cut right trough them without a bump.