DVAted wrote:

I've also disagreed with the order to destroy the B.O.S. but that was due to Obsidian's lazyiness and incompetency. There was a cut alternative option of saving/sparing the B.O.S. with House support and there are some mods that have restored that option fully. SO knowing that, I vote Mr. House.

It's wrong to label Mr. House as evil.
Did you even pick apart his arguments and actions?

First thing in his favor is that he saved my ass. He didn't need to do that. Really. My head had a new hole in it. I don't recall a single other Fallout 3 or NV character or faction to pull me out of my grave and put so much faith in me to fulfill their life-long dream.

Second thing is that he doesn't consider me a mercenary. I quote:
"I'm not offering you an incentive as crude as money - though there'll be plenty of that. What I'm offering you is a ground-floor opportunity in the most important enterprise on Earth. What I'm offering is a future - for you, and for what remains of the human race."

Just check out that vocabulary and demeanor! He's impeccable!

He's a visionary, he's a hopeful dreamer who got off his proverbial ass and actually does something for the future, not for the present. He sees and works for more than merely survival or control, he fights for progression, evolution, advancement; in his own words:
"Give me 20 years and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years and I'll have people in orbit."

Those are his goals! Not territory control. Not being the ruler of the land.
Not invading other places. He's working for the people, for the human race:

That was what really changed my mind about him.

As for the popular choice, NCR, I finished my first play-through with them, but I'm not sure about my current run. I mean, I may follow the Dam battle with NCR after all, I wouldn't want to kill them all and they're clearly a better choice than the Legion. House could use their firepower against Caesar. But my loyalty lies with House. I think he should make the decisions.

I see corrupt governments every day everywhere. They're a plague to the human race.

It's a warfare based regime. Look at USA:

Did you know oil lobbyist persuaded the US Gov. to kill the electric car industry for over a century? Well we all know the US Gov. bailed out the corrupt bankers and put hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes, on their asses, bankrupt. Even as far back as the 1100's when the Arab society was seeing an immense intellectual and scientific uprising, "the powers that be" claimed math books are the work of the devil and that halted their progress by even a millennium and it's still ongoing. That's exactly what NCR promises. The rich corrupt interests safely guarded while the greater good is stomped on. They already would back the casino tribe's interests against that of House and you know this. It's already started!

What really caught my loyalty to the House is when he said:
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
I did, I actually walked up to the windows of his penthouse and looked out. I was horrified. The quote "War, War Never Changes" struck me!
Anything that was still standing was because Robert Edwin House took out 68 of the 77 nuclear warheads heading for the city. Everything that was broken as far as I could see and beyond, all across the globe, was because of the divisive politics of the old world leaders, politics that NCR and the Legion still sustain.

Politicians will always be dirty, lying, hypocritical assholes. Put one in jail, 3 more rise up to take his place, his connections, his "benefits", his power and influence, and they almost always use it for personal gain rather than for the good of the people. And the young ones learn the crooked ropes really fucking fast, and they go further than their predecessors. I have worked with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, lawmakers, politicians, mayors. The righteous ones are opposed by the crooked system and removed if they don't mend. The ones that cede once, will always do it again, once their character breaks its shell and gets infected they have nothing stopping them from failing his or her own principles and values again and again and again, be it for self-interest, political/party interest, greed, blackmail or simple misguidance, with complete disregard to what's right to do.

They'll always get rich off of the poor and the sickly, off of the addicts and the meek, through dishonesty and mass manipulation. There are good people in NCR, of course, but then again there were some excellent gentlemen as Nazi officers and colonels in World War II, who were just following orders or those who have had nothing to do with the camps and gassing innocents.

At its core NCR is based on a divisive system, keeping the poor at the bottom and making the rich even richer, way above and beyond the purpose of law, promoting their ranks solely on namesake and affiliation rather than merit. Just like the B.O.S. they don't give a shit about collateral damage and "outsiders".

In relation to the Fiends or Great Khans, how are the NCR any different than the Enclave? I'll tell you how: they're weaker in numbers, technology and leadership coordination. I'm not saying I would ever side with the Enclave, but at least they didn't stretch so far as to condemn entire squadrons of their own men and entire towns (like in Nelson, Searchlight and Nipton) because of lack of manpower and equipment. They were more humane and intelligent than that.

One man can make a difference: one man with knowledge that stretches 261 years, with a scientific mind (father of RobCo Industries), with natural leadership (he's built the most successful corporation in his name and civilized the casino tribes), with an undenying genius in technology and economy and sheer force of will (he's looked 200 years for the platinum chip and never gave up on it).

And he's not a dictator figure. He doesn't care if people worship him. It's not his face on the Securitron's displays. He doesn't call in people to kneel before him and pray to him and praise him. He stays in all alone and watches patiently from above. He'd rather have the courier take all the glory and get all the praise. He just wants to put people back in their own homes, in schools and engineering colleges, in factories and on the moon.

The others don't impress me half as much as Mr. House does. Based on his own words:
"To your untrained eyes, it may look as though mankind is making a comeback. In the NCR, you have something that resembles a nation state. Savage as it is, in Caesar's Legion, you have an organized society. But neither of these offer a future. They're regurgitations of the past."
And they only lead to more war.

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided whore"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.

I never killed him, but I took that from his wikia page.

I feel that although he praises "dispassionate calculation" to reach success, a lot of his motivation is in the love for and faith in mankind. He's seen the horrors and managed the damage and he still believes people are worth saving, that they're smart enough to handle new technology and that under his leadership he'll prevent them from using it against each other.

Age and information brings wisdom, and though a lot of Ghouls have rotted their memories along with parts of their brain, his genial brain capacity is ever more extended through the use of his computers.

His obituary said:
"Lost forever is his bounty of knowledge concerning human longevity, the depth and breadth of which could, as he was apt to say, <fill several text books>. He was not exaggerating."

I think he really follows the goals of the DC Brotherhood of Steel of fighting the Good Fight, and when he seems like he's ready to kill anyone opposing him he's no different than the Knights were, all suited up and ready to battle. But he picked up the savages from the streets and gave them enterprises to run. That's the most important principle current politicians and those of NCR are forgetting - it's not about your own well-being, it's about the current and future generation's well-being.

Also I'd like to think I'll bring even more humanity to his method if I remain loyal to him.
Independently I wouldn't be able to manage what he does. By his side I could steer him away from unnecessary violence and "dispassionate calculations" that could bring possible negative outcomes, and I will appeal to his reason and intelligence, not to his greed or mercy. He would never cast out a good well formed argument without a better counter-argument and superior calculation. And he's not above appreciating humanity and compassion.

Yes, I lobby for Mr. House because not enough of you took the time to hear him out and envision his side of the story. Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

Essentially Mr House didn't save our ass because he was generous...he did it just because needed something from us:
Remember that the Courier has a personal vendetta against Benny and is ultra-determinate to hunt him down and have back what was stolen,the Platinum Chip which Mr House Needed for his plan of unlocking the full power of his army.
Why should he pick up someone else than a guy like the Courier, who either travelled all the Mojave Wasteland, slain countless people and made contacr with all the major factions, so they can be convinced not to piss of House to get the Job Done?
He saved our ass just because we had the most important thing he needed, period.

Secondly, he offered a position in his society because he knew he could trust us,i think he give the courier the job to communicate with other factions (BOS, Khans, Boomers etc etc), but only He will rule, like a sort of dictatorship with also a kind of oppressive police force (the Securitrons).

His demeanor and vocabulary derivates from the fact he is from the Old World and as such his goals are the same as every inventor and technological Genius (he IS a technological Genius according to the records): Progress for Humanity, it's logical that he wants to achieve it now that he has the means.

But this shall not exclude personal freedom!

What can be indeed a Utopia can easily become a Dystopia and siding with Mr House can very well end like that: A Dystopan City where everyone lives under thye oppression.

But also the No Gods No Masters ending is equally bad because yeah the Courier is Ruler and no other factions is in control..but either the same risks of above are present or new Vegas Plunges in total Anarchic Chaos.

NCR are essentially ok...until the point theyforce all other people to live to their customs, however this is how most governments go nowadays and all land they conquer becomes part of their own and...as such... people in it shall live as NCR citizens.

Legion is a mistery...it is actually bad butit's not enoughfleshed out...maybe they are more of warriors society and, as such, some of their aggressive behavior is explained...too bad the game itself is not enough explored.

I think that, either way the game ends, it's not really a good one and people shall really judge by their motivation and, as such, it's REALLY subjective.

DVAted wrote:

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided whore"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.  

i think that judging people from their words may be a little...naive, what if he says the "future of Humanity part" just to manipulate you? He is more than 200 years old, he knows how the world goes much better than you, who knows if he was bullshitting you?
I pedrsonally don't trust Mr House.

First of All, as you may have already read i think ALL factions have their bad side...so what you said aout NCR are superfluous because i already scrapped the idea.

Second of all...all i have typed down wewre my first impressions of the story as a player who saw for the first time the events of the game, you know, the first impact i had.


The personal freedom thing...i picked it up from the ending...it said so at some point, that the securitrons were kinda oppressive, all i am picking is analyzing the endings i got, i am no USA Supporter and i think they do bullshit too, but the few informations i got led me to get to the conclusion i said before.

The main reason i didn't side with House was that (as i said) i cannot trust him...i mean...he can very easily say that he wants the best for humanity and all...but since the wasteland itself is a place where you can trust essentially no one and the game threw me into the middle of the chaos without the proper introduction to all sides (and i never played the first fallout games) i found the choice problematic, and i found this 200 years old man who i never heard of and who wants a giant robot army with apocalyptic firepower and can be activate all together with ease...you know...it just does not give me the best impression.

I also said that NCR is ok, i meant that it's just like any other government and has less potential to be an abomination according to the clues i have: i mean, i don't think they'll enslave and murder everyone like the Legion or use an army of Super-powered robots at will...at least not right away.

MAybe you are right about House, but i do not trust him straight away.

DVAted... are you me?

Or in less exaggerated words, spot on, in my opinion. All I can add is that I really feel his saving you, and you having to kill him (in either the long or short term) is one of the biggest issues you raise, on a personal level. Outside of bad karma characters, what does it say about your character to kill the man who saved you? To claim the chip, or give it to another, when the receipt clearly states you took the job to return it to House?

Is it even possible to 'spare' House in the other paths? It's been a while since I tried them. And I don't consider leaving him hanging, or unable to interact with anything while he slowly expires, 'sparing'.

I find the polls current status as sadly telling, with House in 3rd after NCR, and the Courier who is basically attempting a poor mans copy of his plan. By making the House route require you to stop and really listen to what he is saying, to look at the situation and events, and make some tough choices, they made it undesirable for many people who simply look at the surface. "Wow, NCR Rangers! Cool!! Awesome! Nostalgia! Their government is like my government, so they are the good guys! House is just a despot, like every other new 'despot' that isn't bending to our government that CNN tells me about."   

pizzamonster94: Oh, for sure, I think the NCR will collapse rather than turn into something horrific, first. It's the aftermath, where everyone in power tries to grab their slice of NCR territory with what force of arms they have. The NCR will effectively return to what it was in FO1, but with 'warlords' running around. But with an NCR victory you are either slowing that, or with a House victory forcing them to go home (and not empty handed, as they still get power, they simply have to pay for it) and 'rethink their policies'. Kimble and the Generals will be the face of everything wrong with the Republic, and good may come of it I choose to side with House because I like and have hope for the NCR. But its ever expanding borders (beyond what it had protect and provide for) is going to be its death. You halt that by choosing House. Just part of my reasoning.

i am not talking good about NCR i said
To me, when i played the first time, NCR was essentially a new government that wants New Vegas and that's all ( don't know about the lore because i only played New Vegas) and, as such, the NCR seemed the better option because...you know, as i said before between a faction of Racist Slavers (Legion)led by a cunning man  (Caesar, if i read well, is kind of a cunning man...never met him though i Always killed him straight away) one of pure Anarchy (Yes Man) and a guy who Creeps the Hell out of me (House) at the time the NCR seemed the good choice because...well...they seemed like the nowadays governments who were voted by its citizens and since Kimball was already hated it seemed to be able to redeem.itself somehow so it seemed the lesser bad.
However DVated showed me some ideas about Robert House i may have missed so the Idea of House ruling New Vegas can be quite a better option , however we don't get to see how it will be.
In my first playthrough i mostly acted according on my impressions the different factions gave me, that's all i could do because i missed two thirds of the fallout's Western Wasteland Story so far

Oh, of course, the post was only half directed at you.

Alixen wrote:

Oh, of course, the post was only half directed at you.

well, actually you are right as it was stated by half of the NCR army at the mojave ( so they actually admit it ), the NCR can't withstand all the territories it's getting with its policy

Yes Man ofc, but I wished that the legion quests weren't as cut as much as they are now. Then I would definitely choose for the legion.

@DarkPancake: can you tell me why you do? i mean, the Legion is extremely underdeveloped and i wish to know your point of view

Yes Man the best man. 10/10 would beat FNV again with Yes Man. But I do want to know what doing the legion quest feels like

What's so special about Yes Man?

I beat the game with the NCR most of the time because i just think its the best fraction to pick in all Nevada because i hate the Legion and Well, Yes Man and his quest taking over vegas seems a little greedy to me

ive only finished with yes man and NCR i havent done the legion or house caus they seem like jerks haha

I've beat fallout with all except legion every time I try to do it ends up bugged and unplayable

My dilemma lied with yes man or NCR. I automatically discarded Caesar's legions and Robert. Both are egomaniacs, and I'd never serve any cause or purpose led by such blatant sociopaths. Yes man's a bit enigmatic. Despite all the initial amusements, I've always been suspicious of Yes man. NCR was the only faction I was keen to serve because of my past history with them in the other games. Ehh... well it doesn't help that the General in the NCR was very similar to the real-life General MacArthur.

Besides when I went for the achievements for choosing the others sides, I always stick with Yes Man. I always think that having an independent Vegas is the best option. NCR was my first choice though, until I realized that they were mostly corrupt and didn't want what was best for Vegas. Siding with Caesar leads to a harsh but livable Vegas, but I just could never seriously do a play through with them because I despise everything they stand for. House is not with the times anymore and won't adapt Vegas into the modern world.

I usually always go the Yes Man route, unless there's achievements I need to scrape up. It's so much more engaging to do it all on your own.

My opinion on the matter is this:
The NCR is the best option because you can have alliance with The Brotherhood of Steel and the Great Khans. I think that since the NCR did terrible things to both BOS and The Great Khans the best way to repay them is by allying with both of them against Caeser. And most of the greatest characters in that game are the NCR.
Caesars Legion Is just out of control, I hate how they're sexist (considering i play as a female 100% of the time) I hate how most of their soldiers are just mindless brutal soldiers, I hate enslavement and so on.
Mr. House I think is the 2nd best option. He has more control over his securitrons than yes-man, he is a good man, he said that he has "great plans for vegas" and i have hopes for him. Tho i hate that you have to destroy the BOS, if it weren't for a mod I would just always go with the NCR just because of that one reason.
And Finally, Yes Man. Yes Man's Ending I feel is a bit selfish you kill the Legion, you kill House, you kick/kill the NCR out of vegas just so it can be independent. I think their would be more crime in Vegas with the independent ending. And i absolutely hate how Yes Man says hes going to upgrade him self to be more assertive.

Usually NCR or Yes Man.

I beat New Vegas with Mr. House simply because he has the brainpower to get humanity going back to being "modern." I don't ever side with the Legion simply because I believe that it would be a step backwards in progress. They would also terrorize the locals and nothing would stop them.

Second choice for me would be NCR because even though there is corruption in the ranks they still have a better chance to be civilized than Legion.

As for Yes Man, I would never go with that option except for maybe achievements.