dragbody wrote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the White Glove Society.

The Fiends are recognized as drug addicts pushed to the brink of insanity. They cause a lot of pain and suffering, yes, but they are in the grips of their addictions. I think being evil requires a devilish mix of mental health and a desire to do great harm. The Fiends only have half of these requirements.

Then there is Caesar, Lanius, and the Legion. Their morality is awful and their methods of justice are brutal, but they don't hurt people for the fun of it. They are harsh in an effort to establish order. I think all of us agree that their efforts are misguided and they deserve a spot on the evil list, but I don't think they take top honors.

Father Elijah is a good mention. His greed has driven him to the point of using people as tools. It's a deadly game he plays.

Returning to the White Glove Society however, we see some pure Hannibal Lecter style depravity. This is a group of people who secretly conspire to murder people for the sake of their elite club and disturbing food fetish. Their desire to lie and cover up their deeds shows they recognize the moral nature of their acts. Overall, the combination of the White Glove Society's atrocities combined with the mental clarity with which they are committed makes me feel they probably deserve the top spot on the most evil list.

I certainly get more creeped out in the basement of the Ultra Luxe than anywhere in the Legion territories.

Hey, Dragbody! I've been wondering how you make your custom races (Nathan Drake, Rick Grimes,etc) and I'm a fan of your work. can you give me a basic tutorial on how you make your races? PM me about the tutorial if you can, if you can't I understand. thanks:)

That rare moment where OP goes off topic in his own topic lol.

I dunno... it's hard to categorize any of the factions definitely... I can understand the Caesar hate... he's built an empire through conquest, sheer brutality and and oppression. But I'd challenge you to name a major faction in New Vegas or modern superpower, in IRL that hasn't done the same. I guess to pick a most evil individual character in FNV you'd have to look at the atrocities they've personally committed as well as their motivations in undertaking these action. Kimball, House and Caesar see these actions, rightly or wrongly, as necessary sacrifices to build a better world. Characters like Mortimer and Cook-Cook just like torturing, brutalizing and eating people. Chaotic evil in the simplest possible sense.

The NCR is certainly more noble than either House or Caesar in their "ideals" but even the greatest NCR president, lore-wise, Tandi, wasn't above simple strong arm tactics, low-key genocide, and allying herself with raging sociopaths like Bishop Sr. (I think his first name was John?) when it suited her needs. Moral of the story... good guys don't build successful nations states. Either way... with all that said. Cook-Cook, Mortimer or the Omerta leadership (Nero and Big Sal) are the strongest contenders for most evil individual characters in FNV.

Also I don't think any of them have s*** on good 'ol Burke from FO3. Genocide... because I don't think our wealthy clientele should have to look at dirty filthy poor people. Although the sentiments of the White Glove Society are largely in the same vein.

If we are including characters from SomeguySeries, Marko definitely takes this. He's Cook-Cook without the drug addiction. He checks both of Dragbody's boxes. He's one of the most sadistic characters in all of fiction, and at this point he is sadistic for the sake of being sadistic, and all of that is behind a calm veneer.

If we are not including the SomeguySeries, Klein from OWB, Elijah (as mentioned above), and Mortimer (who basically is Hannibal Lecter without the genius intellect, superhuman strength (from the book version of Hannibal), and six-fingered hand.

Yes, the Legion are evil, and as a few characters (notably Russell from SomeguySeries and Marcus) point out, they will collapse once Caesar dies or they run out of lands to conquer, so the idea that they may not be as bad in peacetime is incorrect. However, I really do believe that Caesar himself is more misguided than pure evil, and almost all of the Legion has been brainwashed from a young age.

Cook-Cook is an pretty good pick, based on the fact that he is a rapist, killer, drug addict and outright awful person. And those are clearly bad qualities to have. But evil goes to Father Elijah. It is because he wanted to kill everyone in the Mojave. Rape and murder is pretty bad, but genocide is right up there. And listening to Elijah rant about "wiping the slate clean" made it clear that he wanted to remove every army, town, ever man, woman and child in order to start clean. He was also obsessed with the idea, and was willing to kill anyone who got in his way. He wasn't interested in becoming rich, or become some sort of robot king in the Big Empty. He wanted to kill everyone. And to make that worse he had no clear reason to kill everyone. At least what I could gather.

Corvo wrote:

IRORIEH wrote:

In general? Cook Cook.

I don't see Legion as entirely evil, more just culturally evil. Within their culture, they're actually just behaving the way they were raised/conditioned and though Caesar and his inner circle are certainly evil, they still have some level of a plan and organisation.

Cook Cook on the other hand? The man is a rapist/pyromaniac who is considered insane even among the fiends. There isn't really a reason for him to be as evil as he is, other than a combination of Chem abuse and just being a complete monster. The stuff revealed about Cook Cook through the side quest with the slavers in Freeside (who were reluctant to deal with him) and the lady whose name I can't remember, the one he burnt. Add to that list Corporal Betsy, and all the countless others he's probably got his hands on.

The mans a monster plain and simple. He doesn't do it to further a greater plan. He just does it for fun. That's the worst kind of evil. He has nothing to validate what he does on any level.

You are correct how the Legion are brought up into that way of thinking, but it still doesn't change how evil they are. If the Legion enslaves all of New Vegas, does that mean they aren't an evil faction because of their culture? I'm sorry but this is a hilariously flawed way of thinking. So I can commit genocide, become a totalitarian and enslave any random Joe and woman, make them my sex slave, rape them horrifically and then say "Oh well it's just my culture everyone. No problem here" and then everybody will say "We gotcha Corvo, we know it's just your culture. Have a nice day"? You see their "plan" is just to enslave women, enforce conscription of men into their armies and invade everywhere else. That's like the very definition of evil and immoral. It's absurd to apologize for Caesar in in any way because of their culture, as Caesar wasn't brought up under slavery now was he? Is it still HIS culture? Does he get a free pass?

See the argument that the Legion are doing so because it's a post apocalypse is clearly just a mindless justification for it, especially when you have other better factions that can help the wasteland more so than the Legion can. The NCR may be weak and incompetent, and have an evil side, but they don't rape women, they don't tell women they can't become NCR rangers, they don't view women as property while enslaving them and giving them husbands they never opted for. The Legion ARE evil, and even if they want to establish a sense of order within New Vegas, will that order be so much better than if New Vegas was in chaos? It's like trying to argue for raiders to own New Vegas by saying "Oh well at least there's order now be it under the foot of this random raider", "Oh well at least I'm a slave now but at least we have order".

You see Cook Cook is the same as Caesar. Both want to take as many slaves as possible, have as many men working for them as possible, have a life of luxury while slaying everyone they dislike. Cook Cook rapes, Caesar lets his men rape and probably does it himself, Cook Cook murders and tortures, Caesar lets his men torture and kill anybody and does it himself, Cook Cook is insane, Caesar is insane to think that a free Republic under the NCR is worse than a totalitarian state underneath him. Either that or he's an opportunist, which makes him even worse. Not to mention that Caesar has killed and enslaved more people than Cook Cook can dream of.

I'm looking at it on an individual scale, as opposed to an absolute one. Clearly the legion is evil, and I'm not justifying what they do, I'm just saying they aren't the most evil character, since they are a faction. You could say Caesar, because shit rolls downhill, not up, and clearly the legion is designed by him, but I think in a battle of being entirely messed up, Cook Cook is worse. I'm not arguing the legion aren't evil, I just don't view anyone in the Legion as the single most evil character. The Legion is based around rebuilding the world in Caesar's image, and that image while sick, at least is in accordance with a form of order, which is fundamentally flawed. But Cook Cook doesn't have a goal. It's just for the pure pleasure of it. As far as we can tell, Caesar doesn't take pleasure in roasting people alive. Sure he did it to Graham, and he has people crucified, but they're people who disobey him or don't fit into his world, not just people he wants to kill.

I feel you misconstrued my argument. I view Caesar and the Legion as been extremely evil, but compared to Cook Cook? Caesar operates on a larger scale than Cook Cook because he has a world view and ambitions. Cook Cook just wants to see the world burn. The stuff we've heard of Cook Cook personally doing far exceeds Caesar. If we were talking about factions, clearly the Legion far exceeds Cook Cook's lousy gang of fiends, but Cook Cook is still the sickest son of a bitch in New Vegas. I can see some twisted justification that each other evil Character, from Caesar to Elijah can hide behind, but Cook Cook lacks any reasoning. I know some people rank the evil genius as worse than the evil psychopath, but at least a genius in their own mind can validate what they do. We as the player don't have to validate, or agree with it. Characters possessing that level of depth is just a sign of clever writing, not me agreeing with them.

Jeannie. May. Crawford.

Who knows what the Legion does...
Who knows the atrocities they commit...
What they do to women...
A woman who is willing to trade an innocent woman's life for a few caps...
A woman who is completely willing to destroy a man's life, his sanity...
Sell an UNBORN baby into slavery...

Jeannie May Crawford

That's a hard question to answer. Many people in the Mojave can fill that slot. Elijah planned to pretty much kill/enslave everyone in the Mojave. Caesar did as well, but is more brutal about it. Lanius was even more brutal and less lenient than both. Fiends like Cook Cook are also pretty damn evil/sadistic even if their actions are on a much smaller scale.

@stoobygacks From what we learned about him, the only person he had a genuine soft spot for was Veronica. She really seemed like the only person that he actually cared about. Also, if you talk to Veronica after finishing Dead Money, she will say that Elijah died at Helios ONE. I don't know about you, but I think that would tie into the fact that Elijah is actually her father. She said that both of her parents died at Helios ONE. She could've meant this in two totally different ways for her parents.

1. Her mother actually died at Helios One, with Elijah surviving.

2. She said that the Elijah she knew died at Helios ONE. That ties in well with the fact that her father died at Helios ONE. So Elijah= Veronica's father

Tribal Raven wrote:

Jeannie. May. Crawford.

Who knows what the Legion does...
Who knows the atrocities they commit...
What they do to women...
A woman who is willing to trade an innocent woman's life for a few caps...
A woman who is completely willing to destroy a man's life, his sanity...
Sell an UNBORN baby into slavery...

Jeannie May Crawford

This is a good character to add to the list. However, I would still pick any leader of the White Glove Society.

The evidence we have suggests that the WGS repeats their crimes. Crawford's crime may have been a one-off of desperation or manipulation.

She's definitely evil, but there are enough unknowns that prevent us from knowing how evil. Just IMO.

Oh... I just though about this, since people have been mentioning Elijah. What about The Think Tank? They have a callous disregard for the consequences of their actions and have completely lost touch with reality. Given Mobius' (Mmmm Mentants) actions and dialogue, they were like that before he hacked them and messed up their memories. The horrors of the Sierra Madre, the cloud that Elijah sought to use against the people of the Mojave was their creation and they have no remorse for their actions. They seem to be truly incapable of comprehending, on an intellectual level, that their actions are wrong.

Jeanie Mae's really just more of a conceited bitch, she saw her little one-horse town as some beacon of humanity and hated Carla Boone for wanting more for her family a tiny, ranching scavenging town. Carla sounded snobby and egotistical, but being catty isn't really worth condemning somebody to a lifetime of slavery and abuse at the hands of the Legion.

Either way, this thread has really taken off. Any opinions on The Think Tank or other DLC antagonists? I think Mobius and Ulysses were right to fear what the Think Tank could do if let loose upon the wasteland. They already created Cazadors and Nightstalkers and the horrors of the Sierra Madre... what's next? Maybe the right thing is to murder them.

Dermont and Saint James are pieces of shit, I absolutely hate those slavers/rapists. In all my playthroughs, i've never been to Aerotech until I found this video - https://youtu.be/DLbRAAJh-YY
and I've never hated someone so much before.

Now I should be hating Cook Cook more but... He's a raider. They're supposed to be evil, ofcourse they do disgusting shit. These guys only care for profit/pleasure.

Clanden is also pretty fucked up, since he's the serial killer stereotype. (which I find it silly and hard to hate him seriously lol)

@Chase Gunnufsen But if the Courier talks to them, he/she can reason with them to make them realize that them venturing outside would be horrible for everyone. They understand this and choose to remain locked away. They aren't "evil". They lack sympathy sometimes for their experiments, but they still have emotions deep down. By completing each of their side quests, you see more of their "inner selves". I don't believe they're evil.

I think Jeanie sold Carla because she wanted to take Boone away from Novac and that would have really endangered the town. Her getting a few caps out of it was just an added bonus. I didn't get a "conceited" vibe from her. She knew Novac was a small town. I don't recall seeing anything to show otherwise.

@blahblahblah What those people did is really shitty, but I wouldn't even try to say they're more "evil" than the Caesar, Elijah, or Lanius. They only seem worse because you get to focus on the few things they did and only really hear about vague reports of what Caeser, Lanius, and Elijah did. That's like saying the guy who murders one dude is worse than the guy who killed hundreds. Each of the three people I mentioned have no qualms about killing innocent people and feel no remorse. Hell, Lanius takes it a step further with being even more brutal by offering no mercy whatsoever.

Wertologist wrote:

@blahblahblah What those people did is really shitty, but I wouldn't even try to say they're more "evil" than the Caesar, Elijah, or Lanius. They only seem worse because you get to focus on the few things they did and only really hear about vague reports of what Caeser, Lanius, and Elijah did. That's like saying the guy who murders one dude is worse than the guy who killed hundreds. Each of the three people I mentioned have no qualms about killing innocent people and feel no remorse. Hell, Lanius takes it a step further with being even more brutal by offering no mercy whatsoever.

Oh i'm not saying they're more evil, i'm just saying I've never been personally triggered by Caesar, Lanius, Elijah (Who are actually interesting characters and you can listen to their justification for the shit they do) more than them. I just hate Dermont/Saint James more cause of the story with the little girl and her parents .

1 Cook Cook/Lanius Well just insanae rapist and murderer.
2 Caeser Want a better world but mess everithing up.
3 NCR Goverment Bunch of corrupt bureaucrats want suck every thing dry of caps and live.
4 Dermont/James Just lothesome oportunists slavers.
5 Elijah Well cant live it this hellhole want to do a better World. (hellhole of his own, in the end)

Chase Gunnufsen wrote:

True, none of the factions are squeaky clean though... NCR pays mercenaries and mobsters to beat independent cities into submission and is more than happy to strip these newly annexed territories of their wealth and then toss them into the fire when their no longer useful. With that said Caesar's little plan to gas the strip is pretty... callous. Then there's House who'd fancy himself supreme Dictator of the Mojave, he sees the whole Mojave as means to elevate his own ego... Caesar's effective though. I guess it depends how you view it. I think we should have gotten to see a peacetime legion, what a legion  town looks like, how oppressed their actual citizens are. All we see are war camps. I still say that Cook-Cook is the only one of those people I just mentioned who relishes in personally committing the atrocities we've mentioned.

Yea I'd have to go with cook-cook too but Caesar is definitely a close second. To reply to what I quoted I don't see how us seeing a peace time legion will make it any better. Just cause you "only" commit atrocities during war time doesn't make you less bad. What the legion does even if it's during just war time is unforgivable if ya ask me

It's gotta be Cook Cook but I'd go with other guys like Motor Runner, Caesar, and I say Mr.House as well. House doesn't care about human life, he just cares about himself and his power which makes him dangerous if you don't do what he wants you to do, he cares about profit and power, and therefore, his selfishness can also be translated to evil authority. Caesar is also evil, profiting off of men who don't know their ass from their heads, the tribals followed him because he was the smartest guy around, he thinks of women as inferior, and he is a man of evil ideology and therefore he cares about burning the profligates and any who oppose and enslave the rest who cannot fight or in some way, support his Legion. As for Motor Runner, he's gotta be the sickest son of a b*tch around besides Cook Cook, he has slaves including kids, he killed all the Vault dwellers of Vault 3 after they let him in, and the only reason he's leader just like Caesar is because he is the smartest, most non drugged up guy over there. Cook Cook is the worse, when you get dragged to him, he decides what to do with you. He'll give you either bad burns with his flamer, he'll rape you (Regardless if you're a man or woman) so an assrape is likely, and he'll kill you afterwards most likely, the sickest part is the fact that he cares more about his Brahmin pet than his victims, and it goes to show he has some sort of childish demeanor in his head, and the second sickest part is the fact he goes on with life all hunky dory, cooking meals and thinking its all normal when it isn't, ya know? Violet is bad but really, she's not as bad as the other two, she's just a fiend who needs to be put down. But yeah, I gotta go with Cook Cook but Caesar is really bad too.

Come on people. It's obviously a trick question.

Not a single dude/dudette in New Vegas can ever hope to get close to courier ( the player character, or well the player ). Even if it was unintentional, he nuked the divide into oblivion ( not TES one, but still ). He is pretty calm about killing unarmed civilians ( judging by the majority of players ) in order to achieve his goals, cannibalizing, bribing, stealing. Now i'm ain't no lore master, but i never heard caesar NUKED someone.

More so he can load a previous save game thus removing you ( and absolutely anything besides him ) from existance, he can also delete a save game and destroy the world in it's situation. He can experiment on you during his save game travells in order to achieve the responses that will suit him from you, no matter what you might want. He can be absolutely invincible, he can have fun killing over and over again characters with essential status, he can warp reality through his console comands to the point of completely removing anything he dislikes from existance if it does as much as make his quest journal give him unreliable information, he can teleport people and force them to cooperate with him to finish his assignment no mater how bad it might be, he can also clone people, resurrect people without any regard to their state of mind or their PTSD for beeing resurected over 100 times to check if his quest is working properly, only to be killed again, he is also quite unstable and in certain situations he can just vanish completely and freeze time and space ( now he somtimes tries to justify it by some sort of blue screens of some sort, or that he ran out of spare time so he had to leave, but can you really justify enforcing everyones lives onhold? or altering their memory? ).

in almost any situations ( except absolute pacifist runs ) he kills a whole bunch of people, destroys government property, is a war criminal.

Now people in NV may be scumbags to a degree, but nothing can beat this guy in terms of awful personality issues and his inhuman experiments.

The only thing i can't acuse him of is some sort of mass rape ( even then i'm quite sure he made it somewhere considering the existence of loverslab and stuff ).

So i can't think of any npc in fallout NV ( or any fallout at all ) that would be worse than the player character. Now don't get me wrong, i don't mind all the fun stuff in a video game. But you gotta admit a dude that walks out of cafe with unzipped power armor and a hooker on a leash, shoots portable nuclear weapons at peaceful settlements, eats people and ( in some situations ) is responcible for the majority of deaths in New Vegas JUST because he thinks it is a game he is playing and entertains himself the best he can is not a good guy ( even if you played him diferently, a lot of players had tons of fun with shooting stuff despite poor gunplay ).

So just imagine what would he ( in all its manifestations ) from a point of view of regular NPC. He is a walking death machine that is 10 times scarier than caesar or ncr altogether.

The courier, it's simple he can kill the entire wasteland and vegas.

The evilist character is the courier himself, and I'm thinking that the same for alot of you as well if you play like me. I just murder everyone in sight now adays.