The ncr were willing to give their lives at boulder city just to halt the enemy attack, i think that this is a true tstiment to their bravery and cunning, i would think the ncr would matyr themselves and destroy half the enemy force if they believed that they could not win

Finnisher wrote:

AceofSnakes wrote:

Finnisher wrote:

If Brotherhood of steel lost to NCR's superior numbers, i honestly do not see how the Red Line would have any better luck. So, at least on open ground, NCR would take it, but with higher casualties.

Well, the Brotherhood lost because they were a much, much smaller group. And even then, they weren't completely decimated. That and the brotherhood did deal a major blow to NCR's forces. The only reason they really had to retreat was because they weren't equipped to take on such a large group. If the NCR truly had such an advantage, they would've trailed them to their bunkers and finished them there.

In fact, had the Red Line put up a defense at the Helios One, I guarantee the NCR wouldn't have taken it.

During the beginning of Metro: Last Light, Artyom states that there's 40,000 people living in the Metro. Red Line is only a part of that, likely the biggest party in the metro, but compared to NCR, their numbers are minimal, seeing as the NCR is spread largely on the east coast of US, numbering in hundreds of thousands, supposedly at 700,000.

That is, however, a rough estimate. Let's not forget that Raiders, Tribes, and other factions entirely comprise those numbers. The NCR cannot and will not commit its entire military to this siege, nor could it. It still needs troops to defend land claims in the Mojave and California itself. The Red Line could spare more with ease due to their frequent use of railways. The NCR relies on trucks. Fusion trucks, mind you, so if you blew it up you'd kill everyone onboard and nearby. The NCR may have numbers to its advantage, but the Zerg Rush will only work so well in harsh sub-zero environments where the enemy knows the area and how to fight in it perfectly.

That, and the Red Line has vehicles which IMMEDIATELY puts the NCR at such a woeful disadvantage. Even the most basic Red Line weapons like the Bastard SMG and Kalash outmatch the Service Rifle and even higher tier NCR weapons by milestones.

@JJHughes

That was against the Legion. And even then, the NCR had to have been clever enough to lure the legion into the trap. Any competent military leaders, which the Red Line has plenty of, would notice the tactic and pull their troops out. Especially a faction with access to tanks and vehicles. The NCR Ranger Sniper tactic wouldn't work in that case either, as the Red Line also has many trained marksmen.

Most of the tactics used by the NCR against the Legion won't work against the Red Line. The Legion relies on people with machetes, the Red Line has people with training and firearms on par if not way better than NCR's. And Vehicles. Which I cannot stress enough, give the Red Line such an advantage here.

And dont forget that the Red Line Sniper has a VKS Sniper Rifle, which is a Anti Material Rifle which uses 12.7x108mm, in real life that would tear a guy apart and what does the 1st Recon have? Hunting Rifles? Cowboy Repeaters?

VeteranAlpha96 wrote:

And dont forget that the Red Line Sniper has a VKS Sniper Rifle, which is a Anti Material Rifle which uses 12.7x108mm, in real life that would tear a guy apart and what does the 1st Recon have? Hunting Rifles? Cowboy Repeaters?

And speaking of the NCR's beloved 1st Recon, which is really an edgy bunch of people with hunting rifles, here's the Red Line's answer.

http://metrovideogame.wikia.com/wiki/Sniper_Team

You can see how the NCR really loses every advantage here, save for numbers. But even then, that's more meat to the Red Grinder. BADUMTISS.

In retrospect all it takes is an NCR raid on the red line and bingo the NCR procure the modern day armements that will help them win the war e.g. anti tank snipers, or rpg's, also the Red Line are moving into foreign soil they have no idea what animals and creatures are in the wasteland, all it takes is an alpha deathclaw or a giant rad scorpian and all of a sudden they have come unprepared, do the Red Line know what a fatman is, I think not, do they know what happens when an NCR ranger combines a minigun with a M.E.R.V launcher, i dont think so, also depending on who the Courior sided with the NCR could quite easily have the boomers and the enclave on their side, We all know that power armour is a pain to get into. Even with AP rounds.

@JJHughes And why on earth would the Red Line fight a deathclaw? They are smarter than the NCR and know exactly to not fight one, even if they did then a single shot from an VKS Sniper Rifle would penetrate the head of a deathclaw and kill it on impact, also from what i know the NCR has no acces to Fatman's and even if they did then they would more or so kill themselve's or their Troopers, also how on earth can you combine a minigun with a M.E.R.V launcher? There is no such thing in the base game, there is a minigun and a M.E.R.V launcher but there is no minigun with a M.E.R.V launcher combined, and lets not get the courier involved, this is a battle between the NCR Army and the Red Line, before the courier even become well know in the Mojave.

JJHughes wrote:

"In retrospect all it takes is an NCR raid on the red line and bingo the NCR procure the modern day armements that will help them win the war."

You think that they could just rush in and kill well experienced soldiers with proper weapons, sidearms, knife's and Kelever Vests? Their Service Rifle is a rusted old version of the M16 from Vietnam time if i am right, and not all soldiers are given the Service Rifle, the majority of them are given Varmaint Rifles, Caravan Shotguns and other crappy made weapons, while the Red Line has proper weapons such as AK47's, AK74's, Shambler's, Saiga 12K's, VSV's, Kalash 2012's and many more powerful made weapons to send the NCR to the stone age.

If they were fighting in Washington Red Line would win hands down because they are from a heavily devastated urban area. If Red Line made it to the Mohave "somehow" they wouldn't be prepared for fighting in a desert climate with barely any water, in Moscow the NCR would die of radiation poisoning before they encounter any Red Line troops, and if that didn't kill them the metro will, and if that didn't kill them the Red Line would slaughter them. So it's all about location

HardComma wrote:

If they were fighting in Washington Red Line would win hands down because they are from a heavily devastated urban area. If Red Line made it to the Mohave "somehow" they wouldn't be prepared for fighting in a desert climate with barely any water, in Moscow the NCR would die of radiation poisoning before they encounter any Red Line troops, and if that didn't kill them the metro will, and if that didn't kill them the Red Line would slaughter them. So it's all about location

this is what i meant by foriegn soil, even if the red line had scouts you still have the issues with creatures that the redline have no idea about, i also should mention that the red line believe they can prevent radiation with cracked masks and charcoal filters, there armour is quite bulky compared to the Ncr who have designed their armour around desert survival and being able to carry pretty much anything they need, the red line will enter an area that all of a sudden makes them sweat and become deliriouse which might very well affect their aim to some extent, perhaps this would lead to revolt and perhaps a change in sides for many of the disgruntled red line soldiers, looking at game mechanics as well guns in the fallout universe don't overheat, they can jam but most of their weapons have a high condition, despite them being makeshift, on the other hand the redline weapons within the metro universe overheat like hell e.g. bastard gun, and i should mention that within the metro universe it is made clear that bullets are the currency used, mainly military grade ammo (we will forget that they don't expect caps to be currency), this means that there guns will most likely be using dirty rounds which will have a lower velocity and stopping power than the generic 5.56 rounds used by the NCR.

In a pitched fight NCR would lose 9/10 but in the desert it puts the odds in their favor 60/40.

Ave, true to Caesar.

So we are clearly putting a superior military force against a known inferior militia... why have the debate if we already know the answer?

Ok here is one... Red Line vs UNSC...

The Red Line. I am Russian and slightly a patriot so that's obvious  

LOL cool no prob with support your country

NCR is doubly screwed as no one is from there and don't think we have any people really supporting NCR
They just strike me as a largely failed endeavor in Fallout
NCR is under equipped, undertrained, under-armed for anything other than simple mad max raids...
they had problems with Caesar/ Kaiser 's legion, essentially a group of very primitive spear chuckers...
I think that perhaps NCR was just lucky on all their endeavors and not skilled.
though I do know some people hoping for an earth quake to take sink California oddly enough..