So I watched the Force Awakens last week and was really impressed, I loved Kylo Ren but felt Rey was really lacking. She had a great actress but her character lacked motivation and depth to me. I felt like things went to fast as well. In a span of days she goes from junk collector to empire strikes back luke level power. I really really disliked how they made her so powerful so fast, I guess you could go with the "she's related to anakin" or "she's just really skilled" but that seems like a cop-out to me. I went to reddit to see if anyone shared these thoughts, a couple did but they were massively down voted and had angry replies. On posts where we discussed possible outcomes, all of them included Rey beating Kylo Ren in some form. Doesn't that sound a bit too....predictable? I voiced my opinion: Kylo Ren beating Rey in some form would be a big twist. But I got a lot of angry people saying "He's too whiney" or "She's a better character" and even one person calling me sexist. Knowing how polite and respectful everyone is here, I thought I'd start this discussion. What are your thoughts on the two and how would you like everything to pan out?

I'll start: I really really don't want Kylo Ren to be killed off. He is so complicated and visually conflicted. I've always wanted to see a sith who was human. I get the whole point is that they're inherently evil, but some of the best villains we've seen in media have been very relatable. What everyone liked about anakin was that he gave up everything to attempt to save his loved ones. I even would be alright with Kylo killing Rey, every time we see him he grows as a character. Rey's arc has been: "I don't want to leave Jakku even thought I know I should." to "I'm alright with leaving Jakku" while Kylo has had several in the first movie alone.

Personally I really liked the movie. It had all of the elements that made Empire the best of the series (IMHO) and was a great opening to the third trilogy. Having said that I was disappointed in how they shortened/changed the family tree around.. I was kind of expecting the siblings from the expanded universe (legends) - Jaina, Jacen (aka Darth Caedus) and Anakin. Ben was originally the son of Luke and (I think) Mara Jade.

Had they gone with the original family tree it would have explained Reys (Jaina's) Jedi capabilities. According to the books she was very powerful in the force (even when she was untrained) and spent most of her time away from her brothers. In the context of the movies, I think they lifted part of the expanded universe lore and applied it to Rey. If that is the case, we will probably see her rising to be one of the most powerful jedi surpassing even Master Yoda in capabilities at some point in the trilogy.

As for Kylo, it does look (at least to me) like they did lift most of his (Jacen's) backstory from the books. One major difference though, is in the expanded universe he murdered Mara Jade and not his father. Given that I see an even larger expansion of his character coming in the next two movies..

All in all, with the new changes to the lore it will be interesting to see where they take the two characters. Both have their flaws - Reys personality is very much a Han Solo type (loner, focusing on herself, etc) whereas Kylo has a temper that will be his undoing. In the movie both seem to try to work past these flaws. I see Rey winning the battle of character growth so far though as she has started to see the bigger picture. Kylo on the other hand lost the last fight as he could not keep his temper in check...

rgordonjr wrote:

 Both have their flaws - Reys personality is very much a Han Solo type (loner, focusing on herself, etc) whereas Kylo has a temper that will be his undoing.  In the movie both seem to try to work past these flaws.  I see Rey winning the battle of character growth so far though as she has started to see the bigger picture.  Kylo on the other hand lost the last fight as he could not keep his temper in check...

But doesn't that seems too predictable? I can't see why anyone who wants a stereotypical disney princess happily ever after ending. These movies seem a lot more mature in comparison to the original trilogy, I can't imagine a "and the bad guy lost and they lived happily ever after." Partly because I don't want that. I'm a writer, I do it for a living. As she stands currently, Rey is a narrative fuck-up. Her only motivation is that she has nothing better to do. I get what you're saying on her arc beginning but she has no arc to go on. The only thing that can change is her skill level. She has no personality flaws or moral flaws. And she really isn't a Han Solo type character cause she constantly has friends around, Finn is a Han Solo type character. Thats evident by the fact he was so eager to leave everyone behind. Kylo Ren has had his arc visually start with his lightsaber impaling Han Solo, if anyone is going to have a long run narrative, its him.