IIHawkerII wrote:

Ballout wrote:

edit - Gibons45 hit the nail on the head.  If 76 suddenly had a single player option I run with it and never touch the MP again.
Someone brought up the mod that made Tarkov SP, would absolutely love to see that happen with 76.

This is kinda confusing as a statement, as 76 is right now - You basically can play it single player, it's more or less designed that way. The only real difference is needing an internet connection. That might sound like Hyperbole, but as far as I'm aware it's super common to play the game completely on your own and almost never run into other players. And that's in the free, public mode.

Not really confusing. Yes, I would like 76 to be a completely offline, single player game. Fully moddable, and not just 'ENBs' and minor mods, and no marketplace pushing.

Fallout 76 maybe functionally SP but requires an always-online connection and there are no mods. I'm not giving Bethesda any control of me.

And besides, the entirety of the premise of 76 would have to be redone by modders:
Brotherhood at all, Taggerty is fine, her talking with Maxon is fine, her being Brotherhood is NOT fine. No exile from 76, it has to remain a hub and all the factions have to be ALIVE and not dead, which is what Wastelands SHOULD have been, a complete retcon of the initial premise of the game. The factions sound interesting, but they're all dead. Unaccapectle, even more so than Fallout 4, and that's REALLY saying something.

We're not, not, not getting another fallout 1, 2, or new vegas. At least not at that level of quality. It won't happen, not if bethesda keeps their grip on it. Money talks. F4 was fabulously more popular. Skyrim was indescribably more popular than the more complex Morrowind.
So the old-timers have lost the series they loved. We're never getting another game like we'd hope for. it's been removed and replaced, eliminated by the dollars of a more numerous new-comers who wanted something slicker, simpler. New-comers who don't necessarily even know about or care about bits of lore from the 90's.
Watching something you love torn to pieces by people who don't care about what it used to be, makes people angrier than they probably should be. I mean, if fallout 4 was the the first in the series, I am almost certain people wouldn't be screaming that it was trash. They'd say more moderate things like, "Not as good as it could have been." People are just furious that their beloved series is gone, replaced by something else using the name.
It's actually a culture clash, in a way. And the new-comers are simply more numerous, have more dollars to control the corporation. The player base of fallout 2 was comically low compared to the sales of fallout 4.

Sirdanest wrote:

I mean, if fallout 4 was the the first in the series, I am almost certain people wouldn't be screaming that it was trash.  They'd say more moderate things like, "Not as good as it could have been."  People are just furious that their beloved series is gone, replaced by something else using the name.  

I'm not convinced of that.

If Fallout 4 had been the first entry into the Fallout series with no history of FO3's great sales, or FONV's love from the fan base for the writing and factions system, it would have been savaged for its launch day (lack of) performance (including single digit frame rates on some parts of the map with high end GPUs), glitches, and game breaking bugs. It ran horribly even on high end systems, and as improved as the gun play was over 3/NV it was decidedly sub-par for games released in 2015.

It would have basically gotten the same backlash that FO76 eventually got for exactly the same day one sh*t show, where people finally got sick of Bethesda releasing early access games at full price and expecting the modding community to fix it.

someguynamedrob wrote:

Sirdanest wrote:

I mean, if fallout 4 was the the first in the series, I am almost certain people wouldn't be screaming that it was trash.  They'd say more moderate things like, "Not as good as it could have been."  People are just furious that their beloved series is gone, replaced by something else using the name.  

I'm not convinced of that.

If Fallout 4 had been the first entry into the Fallout series with no history of FO3's great sales, or FONV's love from the fan base for the writing and factions system, it would have been savaged for its launch day (lack of) performance (including single digit frame rates on some parts of the map with high end GPUs), glitches, and game breaking bugs. It ran horribly even on high end systems, and as improved as the gun play was over 3/NV it was decidedly sub-par for games released in 2015.

It would have basically gotten the same backlash that FO76 eventually got for exactly the same day one sh*t show, where people finally got sick of Bethesda releasing early access games at full price and expecting the modding community to fix it.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I think that there's just a shift in the popularity of certain kinds of criticism and the general tone of nerd-dom- not ENTIRELY spurred on by the popularity of certain kinds of youtube critics, but definitely a related phenomenon.

Fallout 3 is an absolutely fucking wack game. I love it and I have my nostalgia for it, but most people look at it through rose-coloured glasses. There are huge swaths of game that are absolutely abysmal, not just compared to Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, but Fallout 4 as well. The engine is hilariously unstable. The gunplay is horrible; the characters look awful, even by the standards of the time. The writing is atrocious. Dialogue is fine, but 90 percent of the story writing is either completely nonsensical or so ham-handed it's not even funny. Sure, there are 'moral options', but there's no depth there. You can either choose to be a good person or so impossibly evil that Hitler would think you were scary. You have to remember this was a game that railroaded you into one ending, KILLED YOU, and then made you pay real world money not to die.

I love Fallout 3, but I genuinely think that Fallout 4 is an improvement on literally every single level except for dialogue choices. I genuinely think that nerds are just more prone to criticism these days. That doesn't mean that their criticisms are incorrect; just that in years past the same people probably would have been more apt to let things slide.

IIHawkerII wrote:

1 - Boring world design that's always A to B with nothing in between.
2 - Cringey marvel-esque, quirky humor and dialogue
3 - Severe lack of enemy, weapon, etc variety
4 - Useless tacked on Skill / perk system that does nothing but provide the illusion of depth. Most skills and perks do nothing and some are completely redundant, only there to pad out the list. You're looking at imagination the likes of +5% health, +5% damage, +5% bullet time, etc, etc.
5 - Loud, in your face themes and messages. The entire game, the whole way through, Outer Worlds will loudly shout in your face 'Corporations are bad and incompetent', even when you play the corporate path - Which is genuinely insulting to one's intelligence.
6 - The planets start out strong but very quickly plateau into a repetitive slog of 'Help corpo or anti corpo solve problem, kill the other, rinse, repeat'.

I disagree with your other points, but also more relevantly, on the stuff in your post that I bolded: I have some fun news to tell you about the original Fallout games.

spymuffin wrote:

I disagree with your other points, but also more relevantly, on the stuff in your post that I bolded: I have some fun news to tell you about the original Fallout games.

Fun fact I think Fallout 2 is fucking atrocious and the blind love people have for it is unsettling.

IIHawkerII wrote:

spymuffin wrote:

I disagree with your other points, but also more relevantly, on the stuff in your post that I bolded: I have some fun news to tell you about the original Fallout games.

Fun fact I think Fallout 2 is fucking atrocious and the blind love people have for it is unsettling.

Yeah, 2 is my least favorite in the series as well. Not necessarily atrocious, but it just seemed a slog and odd pacing compared to 1.

someguynamedrob wrote:

Sirdanest wrote:

I mean, if fallout 4 was the the first in the series, I am almost certain people wouldn't be screaming that it was trash.  They'd say more moderate things like, "Not as good as it could have been."  People are just furious that their beloved series is gone, replaced by something else using the name.  

I'm not convinced of that.

If Fallout 4 had been the first entry into the Fallout series with no history of FO3's great sales, or FONV's love from the fan base for the writing and factions system, it would have been savaged for its launch day (lack of) performance (including single digit frame rates on some parts of the map with high end GPUs), glitches, and game breaking bugs. It ran horribly even on high end systems, and as improved as the gun play was over 3/NV it was decidedly sub-par for games released in 2015.

It would have basically gotten the same backlash that FO76 eventually got for exactly the same day one sh*t show, where people finally got sick of Bethesda releasing early access games at full price and expecting the modding community to fix it.

People forgive bugs ... usually.
New Vegas was being unbelievably savaged on release day. You'd never know, looking at the hate, that one day it was going to be so completely beloved. No one cares anymore that once upon Doc Mitchel's head was spinning or that it crashed so often.
Skyrim, same thing. Dragons were flying backwards. People were mocking it up and down the street. But it's shown unbelievable longevity and those long dead bugs are long forgotten. So many games are forgiven for their bugs on launch day ... if they get fixed. Fallout 4 fairly soon began running flawlessly. I waited until far harbor was out before getting it and had a fairly bug-free experience.
If you ask people today why they hate fallout 4, it is extremely unlikely that their answer will be "It had too many bugs on launch day." It will be rage about the lore, or dumbing down the standards set in earlier games.
If people hate fallout 4, it might be because the changes are things that are just beyond the ability of modders to fix. Bethesda usually puts out games that the modders eventually "fix."

I can understand everyone's views but think of it like this...
If you prefer the old but gold og's which were a milestone of rpg survival gaming stick to the originals!
If you like 3 and New Vegas 3d rpg style with great story lines and dlc? play them!
If you prefer 4's more modern fps style and building settlements go play it!
If all you wanted was a multiplayer Fallout to play with your also Fallout obsessed friends after playing the others to almost death like i did guess what?.. Go play 76 with them!
There is almost a Fallout for every kind of player out there its pretty special tbh.. most developer's create mass produced garbage like cod, battleground games etc. that never change and that is hella boring.

I have my own opinions about what i like and dislike about each of them. But that's just it.. my opinion.
Discussions or debates are fine but toxic FaLlOuT (insert 1-76 here) iS bEtTeR tHe ReSt ArE tRaSh is not welcome here or anywhere. Let people enjoy things.

what world would we live in if we didn't hate one another. if u like classics 1 and 2 is for you. like 3d go for 3 and nv. like building and customization then 4 it your to go. or perhaps u want some friends then 76 is your click. hell u even got shelter for mobile. take your pick to small of a world to bicker over games.

I have a mixed oppinion on this. Fallout 3 was my first entry into the franchise, being so long ago I can't remember if I played it on the xbox 360 or ps3. I thought it was fun at the time but didn't play it as much. I was hyped for fallout 4 because of skyrim/oblivion since I played them more and bought it day 1. It was fun at first but then Preston Garvey made me quite with his settlement bullshit. Also I hated how simple the story was compared to other RPGs I have played in the past like Final Fantasy, kotor, mass effect, etc. For example, when I then guessed that your son would probably be the head of the institute and sure enough he was, in which I found out from a younger relative. Then F76 was around the corner and after not liking 4 I decided not to buy it. Still, this same younger relative bought F76 and even he thought it was bad until they started to update it; now saying it's decent.


I got new Vegas on steam and played it for a bit but never really getting into it. Still, after playing over 500 hours on skyrim and playing Oblivion throughout my life I decided to give New Vegas a chance; especially after my bad experience with 4. I didn't do this with Fallout 3 because I wasn't interested in 3 at all when I tried to play now compared when I was a child. 3 felt bland and just felt like you run of the mill RPG. However after finally cracking that nut that we call New Vegas I fell in love with it. Keep in mind I would have never started New Vegas if it were not for 3 introducing me to the franchise . Having over 800 hours and still not one complted playthough I can see why people prefer it over 3. Still, I acknowledge that we would not have New Vegas if it weren't for 3. Eventually I will play 1,2, and tactics; then I will try 3 (TTW or F3 Remake with F4) or 4 which ever one first out of the two I haven't decided yet. However, 76 is a no for me because it seems still like a souless cash grab and I am not a big fan of MMO's.

This same relative that I talked about earlier really enjoys fallout 76 since he gets to play with his friends and enjoys the world that fallout brings. I get annoyed since I belive 76 makes the world more mainstream and bland compared to past games. Beliveing that 76 is a mockery of what came from the past. Keep in mind this same relative has only played 76 and no other games so they have a limited view on the franchise as a whole.


I feal like Ulysses in New Vegas with the white legs. How they used dreadlocks as a way to honor him just like how this same reasoning can be applied how my relative uses 76 as a way to honor me since I introduced them to videogames at large. But just like how Ulysses doesn't feal honored but instead mocked so do I feal the same. The white legs don't know the meaning of the dreadlocks when it comes down to their history with the Twisted Hairs. Just like how my relative doesn't understand the significance of Fallouts history as a whole; with 76 butchuring the past that came before it. Still, I can use use 76 as way a to  eventually introduce them to the older games in the franchise just like how I have done the same with other game franchises way before his time like one of my favorites Final Fantasy 9; which he loves just as much as me.

Older fans like me want the old fallout back but that will never happen. Bethesda is stuck in their ways and Obsidian is not the same company it once was with most of the OG fallout developers and those who made NV gone. Just like how Ulysses feals those who try to bring back the old world are fools I feal the same for those who want the old fallout again. If you want og fallout you either can play the orignals games or games like wastlanders 3, spirtually successors are your only chance. If you want those 3 and NV days then you play them again with mods like those that are out today or new future mods like Fallout: Nuevo Mexico, Fallout 3 remakes with 4, and FNV remake with 4.

Just responding to the question, I wouldn't say that we all hate each other. We are more around the lines of "Gatekeeping" The game we love. New Vegas is a pretty large one for being known. In terms of the modding community Fallout, 3 isn't...to be frank, it's none existent. But its successor per se TTW does exist.

Fallout 4 is more of a challenge than some enjoy. But isn't an excellent story base. This is mostly my experience from seeing each pov of the community.

Speaking as someone whose entry into the series was with Fallout: New Vegas and has played every game in the series (though I've never completed two of them -- guess which two), I don't hate 76. I hate that it's an online service game with absolutely no hope for proper mod support unless locally-run private server emulators are somewhere down the pipeline.

Fallout 4's dialog system is also the only major complaint I have about that game. Everything else, I knew to expect just from watching the E3 presentation and not being prone to spouting off "Fuck Bethesda, Todd 'Godd' Howard is a liar!" hyperbole.