so we pretty much agree that both these places are probably places you do not want to be in but i just thought of something if you were an ncr trooper which place would you rather be stationed at forlorn hope or bitter springs or which place is worse for an ncr trooper

I think forlorn hope, pre-courier help is worse. Low supplies, low troop count, the legion camped out right at your feet, the no man's land around the camp. And you have hanlon back at camp golf making sure you dont get the help you need.

Forlorn Hope I believe would be worse. Not enough supplies from medicine to ammunition. On top of that moral is lower than I've seen anywhere else. You have a soldier stealing supplies which does nothing to help at all, Legion breathing down your neck, and what seems like a military hierarchy that doesn't care if you live or die; you're just a number. Just walk into the medical tent or speak to any of the named NCR NPCs and that should answer this debate. This is not to say Bitter Springs doesn't suck however.

Forlorn Hope for the sense of hopelessness. I would rather be at Bitter Springs and eek out an existence than be at Forlorn Hope and be in the state of constant dread knowing that whatever I do, I will still die and my death will be in vain as the Legion takes over the camp.

Pfft. What kind of question is this?

In bitter springs you're watching over a bunch of beaten, unarmed, worn down left behind, refugee survivors from the Great Khans. There is no Legion nearby and no raider settlements/camps in the area. Aside from perhaps wildlife in the hills there is nothing to worry about.

In Forlorn Hope you're under supplied and outnumbered facing an aggressive, well motivated Legion that's hungry for your blood who use ruthless tactics like mining the bodies of people in no man's land be it NCR or their own troops.

Bitter Springs is boring but at Forlorn Hope you're being sent to die.

You mean the Camp Forlorn Hope? The one that's understaffed, undersupplied and is pretty much located at the front lines, with the guys the crucify people for kicks operating about ten feet away?

Nah, I'm sure bittersprings is worse, lol

@FlannelGod yeah and as private sexton said moral is lower than a feral ghouls iq
@xtheoutcastedx yep and i'm preety sure polati has lost hope for the ncr at that point
@ahyuser001 i think i would rather be at bitter springs if i'm being honest
@DrCube i agree bitter springs may be boring but at least i have less of a chance to die

Bitter Springs.

Bitter Springs wasn't under constant attack, that's the thing. It was under supplied and under manned true, but aside from the one Khan in the hills, there was no major threat the majority of the time. Forlorn Hope on the other hand was the front lines. That was not just under manned and under supplied, along with most of the Troopers there being conscripts with poor equipment, but it was also the site of the NCR's fiercest battles with the Legion. Constant fighting, nightly raids, hunger and the knowledge that almost anyone you know, or even you yourself could be killed at anytime...

If you're interested, Forlorn Hope is a name used to describe a group of soldiers tasked with a mission that is guaranteed to have a high casualty rate. A suicide mission basically. Most people don't really have the desire to give their lives for anything, particularly not conscript soldiers.

Bitter Springs isn't a cushy posting to be sure, but I'd take it any day over Forlorn Hope.

@IRORIEH you have a solid point here. To be frank, these are both shitholes. There is no winning either way you go. But there is a higher survival probablity if you were stationed at Bitter Springs. The NCR should've delegated supplies from Golf or even Mccarren (I see how this wouldn't be probable though) in order to help these soldiers. Each camp is in dire need of assitance with none in sight other than the Courier. Even after Nelson is taken out Forlorn Hope really isn't improved all that dramatically.

@"HectorSuarezking" if you're interested, here's a mod that restores some cut content to the no man's land around the camp. There's more legion/ncr battles, and you'll see some maimed NCR troops trapped with frag mines. The legion is brutal.

nexusmods. com/newvegas/mods/46648 (cant post actual link, my account is still too new lol)

FlannelGod wrote:

@HectorSuarezking if you're interested, here's a mod that restores some cut content to the no man's land around the camp. There's more legion/ncr battles, and you'll see some maimed NCR troops trapped with frag mines. The legion is brutal.

nexusmods. com/newvegas/mods/46648 (cant post actual link, my account is still too new lol)

I remember this was actually in the release version of the game. I think they patched it out because of memory issues on consoles.

Yep definitely made the situation seem a lot more distressing.

Double post, sorry about that!

Forlorn Hope. I'd rather be defending the front than struggling for supplies.