Here's my opinion of the faction's of New Vegas, just because I thought I'd be fun to start a convo about it. Feel free to agree with me or to tell me I'm a moron.

I've seen some people praise the story of New Vegas because the game gives you complex factions to choose from. Thing is, I completely disagree. The factions in NV couldn't be more simplistic, and House is the only choice that seems to make sense.

Here's NV factions in a nutshell:
- NCR: an heavily idealized version of the US government. With many of the sames problems. The good option.
- Caesar's Legion: ISIS larping as roman. The evil option.

The interesting thing to me, is that despite being polar opposites, they share the same 2 flaws that makes them horrible options to side with.

First, neither of them offers a future. They're trying to rebuild the past. Of course, they take different moments of the past as inspiration, but in the end, the best both of them can aspire to is create something that approximates a past civilization. Notice that I say approximate, because thanks to, you know, the nuclear Armageddon, they will never be able to get to the same point as the past civilizations they admire did.

Secondly, the player's role is the same. Both of them see you as a lackey. A condecorated lackey, but a lackey just the same. Watching the ending for both factions my reaction was the same: "That's it? I win the damn war for you and you repay with a medal?" In the case of the legion is even more baffling because the legion is a slave army. I initially thought you could become Caesar or at least the second in command, but no. If you join the legion, you voluntarily become a slave. Seriously, WTF?

House is the only one who offers a future for all parties. He's also the only one who actually appreciates what the character does for him and repays it appropriately.

Sure you can go independent, but the questions would be, what would you get by killing House, that you couldn't get by working with House? Killing House accomplishes nothing because he's already willing and able to give you anything you want anyway. In fact in the long run, it's a much worse option, because even if your character is a genius, you don't have House's knowledge, which is the key to amazing technologies. Killing him is like burning down the Library of Alexandria.

Overall, it just seems to be one of the easiest choices I've ever been presented with in a game. That's my opinion. What do you guys think?

Yeah, he's the best option; except for my first run, where my character's first and only friend was Veronica. There was no way I was going to gun her down for House, kill her family, etc. Not when independent was an option.
My second playthrough was without Veronica, and the BOS behaved like insane psychopaths, and I was glad to put them down for House, and that ending probably would result in the most interesting and ultimately best result for humanity, if House was not crazy about being able to go to the stars.

Problem with house is that he's one man. A one man government just won't work.

I know, he's been planning this for centuries, but still. What if something goes wrong? Does he have a contingency for all that? He isn't able to stop you from killing him. But of course with his resources, I suppose he could make better defendable robots.

If you haven't seen this already, I'd recommend you watch Oxhorn's video on Mr. House as he makes a lot of valid points. He does miss out a few points and does blow things out of proportion, but he still points quite a lot of flaws.



In support of your defense, check the comment section for a comment from a user named "Why Name?". They counter argue a lot of what Oxhorn says.

Don't get me wrong, I think a guy with all the technology in his hands running Vegas would be awesome and would no doubt make it a safe place, but just making the decisions all by himself based on calculated success and no public opinion just won't make him look good for his audience.

EDIT: As for Sirdanest's complaint about the brotherhood. You can easily get a mod that will allow you to convince him to spare them, as we all know this was a cut feature, I dunno why it wasn't included in the final game.

Just a mention - House actually care ONLY about Strip.His casinos and profit. Noting else. Also - what's different to be Caesar/NCR "lackey"and to be House one?I do not see difference.
At least Caesar/NCR do not want only Strip, but whole Mojave.
And here is, what most of you got wrong - reason - game end say independence is wrong.Why? Because they want u to stick with one of 3 ends they made. From what i see independence is added at last min and it's just for color, discouraging player to go that way.
But, here is the catch - it is not independence actually. It is YOU, that command Yes Man. Other words - u command Securitrons and ALL in Vegas. It is YOU - THE WAR HERO, idolized(if u go that way) by all population in Mojave. Feared, if you want by them. It is YOU, that have have The Big MT technology and resource.
YOU are THE SAVIOR or THE BEAST, not Caesar/NCR/House.
And the end it is YOU, that decide.
But, no! Game say no.
Riots? PLS!! U will riot against Securitron army??With stones and knifes?
Starvation?Lack of resource??!? With all resource,that House posses+Sierra Madre+OWB?!?!
With all towns, factions, ppl, that idolized or fear to death from you?!?!
From, what i see, only reason no1 to make mod for that, is this.Game say no.
Why not to be in command, while u actually are in command.

@ gavin gold (Original Post)

Personally, I think the best option is for an Independent New Vegas. Since it would have the least amount of consequences or backlash with the towns and settlements of New Vegas. Plus, if the Courier had every independent faction on his side, combined with a theoretical infinite supply of Securitrons. I think eventually they would be able to raise a sizable army worthy of defending New Vegas.

The NCR is pretty much an entire republican party, meaning that they are most likely only able to lean toward one side. Which would be a bad government to work with. If they where to be a mixture of various parties and beliefs, such as having democrats, independents, and other political influences, it would allow for a much brighter future for the wasteland.

The Legion would be even worse. Because they are patriarchal and misogynistic society. A society who's government, army, and society are male dominated. It would probably provide a lot of perks and benefits for men. But it would be hell for women. Since all women within the Legion are slaves.

Mr. House would be the worst, because he would be a dictator, and everyone would have to live by his laws and his rules. Which would affect everyone, and I'm pretty sure that House would have a Judge Dread style system. Where all crimes would mostly likely result in a death penalty. Not to mention what kind of living conditions he would force people to live in.

That's all just my opinion though.

I agree House is a better option, but like said before he is one man. He is better than the NCR and the legion because he looks beyond the wasteland to expand. Like any person with too much power he will become tyranical. never the less a factor that a lot of people don't take in is the player. who wouldn't say that the player won't interfere in his rule if he goes crazy

gonna say some harsh truth here. mr house is the "best" option for a WASTELAND because the WASTELAND don't need the roman slavers or the corrupt USA wannabe also independent is just Mr.house ending with the courier in charge (worse Mr.house replica if you know what I mean)

The fact that he's incredibly easy to betray... makes me think he doesn't really have a plan as solid as he's saying. He literally didn't think, "What if the person I trust chooses to betray me?" There was literally no backup plan whatsover. It would be really, really obvious to include defenses. But he doesn't. Nothing. No defense against a courier's betrayal, even if the courier has been behaving like a treacherous lunatic.
I mean, he sounds so confident and charismatic, if arrogant. But technically, we don't have any proof that he's anything more than an eccentric, wealthy lunatic. Are his go-to-the-stars plans realistic? or is he babbling nonsense?
Both the legion and NCR would probably ruin anything special about New Vegas, as they're both opposed in different ways to what it stands for. Both of them would "clean it up" in different ways until it was just yet another crumbling ruin with people living in trash.
So independent with the legion completely obliterated and the ncr kept at a distance is the only safe option in my book. House iwould have been the best... if and only if he actually knows what he's doing, and I don't know about that... maaaybe.
Now that I think of it, it's a little odd that more people take House at his word that he knows what he's doing. We technically don't know.

Man, people finally got engaged with the post! Awesome. So, there's a lot to respond to here. Let's go:

@"Sirdanest" He's easy to betray because that's a bullshit game mechanic the devs needed to have. It's the same reason why a female courier can join the legion or why a non nord dragonborn can join the Stormcloaks in TESV. Something that makes no sense but they do it anyway in the sake of balance.

@"CyberCharger" Dude, that's a non sequitor. So many great rulers in history have been autocrats who ruled for decades.

@"Tekmon_Xonic" Mr. House would be the worst option? Worse than ISIS the legion? Man, people keep using "dictator" as a nasty word because now a days we think democracy = good. History is filled with example of great autocrats. The golden age of the Roman Empire is under the rule of Augustus, not during the republic, just to give you an example. The problem with an autocracy is not that one ruler is inherently bad, is that if that ruler is bad, because the government depends so much on that person and because there is little restrain to his power, that usually leads to awful consequences. Meanwhile when a democratically elected ruler is bad or incompetent is not that bad because you can throw him out a few years later. As long as you can keep a good, competent ruler, autocracies work best. Now, granted, that's pretty hard to do in real life. But this isn't real life. We're given an immortal economic and scientific visionary.

Here's another example where one man runs the show and it works much better: A company. Which brings me to the next point. Look, let's address what House wants to be, because dictatorship is not the right word. His vision of Vegas is of a place run not so much as a country but a company. A sort of libertarian corporatocracy with him as C.E.O. A place without idiot politicians or thousands of laws, just free people dedicated to make money and enjoy life, with him using that wealth to power his futuristic dreams. That sounds great to me.

@"d_ahat" The difference is in the reward. Neither the NCR or the Legion offer any reward. House does. NCR, like a typical military, will offer you a medal and call it a day. Caesar gives you a coin and that's it; he doesn't even rewards you with a prestigious position. House is willing and able to give you anything you want. Except I guess, ownership of the Strip. But again, that brings me to one of my original points: what do you get by killing House and assuming control of New Vegas, that you couldn't get by working with House?

@"CrinosWolf500" Ok, I did watch the video. I'm not impressed with the guy or his reasoning, so let me address his points. Just for reference, I didn't look at any of the comments:
- Main argument: Democracy = good. Fallacy. For the reasons I explained before.
- He takes control of the areas surrounding NV: Yeah, that's kind of what you'd like, isn't it? Or would you prefer he abandons the rest of the Mojave to their fate? Don't you want all the Mojave to prosper like the Strip does?
- He did not save Freeside/Hoover Dam/Any other place in the Mojave: Assuming those are somewhere around Las Vegas, yes he did. That's why the entire Mojave has so little radiation, as mentioned by Ulysses in Lonesome Road.
- He kills the Kings: What I picked up from the ending slides is that he claims Freeside, the Kings resist (likely with violence) and and that leads to their deaths. OK, so? He makes this absurd claim that the kings would probably have used some human touch on running Freeside. I'm sorry, what? The kings are just a bunch of thugs.
- He kills the BOS: I think the problems here is that a lot of people like the BOS. I want to like them as well. But when it comes to story and making decisions you have to look at what makes sense. House's description of the BOS is on point. They're a fanatical, militant, quasi religious factions that believes all technology belong to them. They harass travelers for so much as a laser rifle. What do you think they'll do once they see House using a robotic army and reigniting the Advanced tech sector? The BOS is simply incompatible with the future he imagines.  
- He takes risks: This is perhaps the dumbest argument. No one builds anything without taking risks.
- He's charging exorbitant amounts for the water: No. bottles of pure water go for as much as 20 caps in game. Selling the gallon of water at 5 caps is super cheap. This guy definitely isn't a math genius.
- He send all the water and electricity to NV or sells it, leaving locals with none: No. Nowhere in the game does it say that.

Ultimately the video comes down to a collection of strawmen, huge leaps in logic, copious use of conjecture, and a main argument that can be summed up with "but dude, the guy is not warm enough. He ain't got enough feelings!"

The brah saved Vegas only reason New Vegas is around etc etc thenthapple made a pretty on point reason as to why House is the right choice that lines up with my thoughts every time i play reguardless of what build i role play as i side with House it just makes sense to me.

I don't think the writers can be excused for making House so easy to betray. I know that's why they did it, they didn't want it to be hard, but no other major faction has an easily accessable "die" button. It would have been easy to fix... like, securitrons inside his sanctum that would attack anyone entering. At least it would have looked like he was trying to stay alive and not a monstrously stupid fool. There just wasn't any good excuse to make him so effortlessly easy to kill.

House's plan is to abandon Earth, probably with a select few. He's not the best choice for the wasteland, because he doesn't care about it at all, neither hostile nor friendly.

But as for building a better future, far away from Earth, maybe. But I suspect on his new world, war would never change, and people would continue to be stupid and violent, even if it took a few generations for the House Space Utopia to revert to infighting and factions and greed. It would make for a great story though, seeing a future where House wins and carries out his plan.

Also I think House approached the wrong people to run his casinos. All three ended up being bad choices, although perhaps with Benny out of the way the Chairmen would be tolerable. Maybe they were the best options at the time, but that's a sad state of affairs. The kings, the vault 18 residents, and the followers of the apocalypse would make good replacements for the Omertas and White Gloves. I bet the Kings could run a really groovy casino without cannibals or murder. I'd trust the Khans before the Omertas or White Gloves, and that's a scary thought.

I suspect the devs also thought House was the best choice, just because how judgmental the notification of his death are... things like "Humanity's best future is gone" and stuff like that. Fallout doesn't normally pound you that hard when you do a bad-karma deed.

@Sirdanest well for the "house will go to space and don't care about the wasteland" argument well I have something to say

HOW IN THE HELL WOULD HE GO TO SPACE WITHOUT GENERATIONS OF WELL EDUCATED SCIENTISTS WITH A STABLE ECONOMY AND INFRASTRUCTURE HUH??!??! SPACE EXPLORATION WILL LEAD TO SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGHS AND BETTER LIFE CONDITIONS FOR EVERYONE AND FOR THAT TO HAPPEN HE NEEDS AN ECONOMY AND WHO WOULDNT BENEFIT FROM THAT?!!?!??

AND HE SAID SPECIFICALLY THAT HE NEEDS 200 YEARS TO ACHIEVE THAT IN 200 YEARS HE WILL MAKE THE WASTELAND A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYONE TO ACHIEVE HIS GOALS

EVEN AFTER GOING INTO SPACE ALL OF THE GOOD SHIT THAT LEAD TO THIS WILL STAY ON EARTH SO HE WOULD LEAVE BEHIND MONEY SAFETY AND KNOWLEDGE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME

@"Sirdanest" Of course they can be blamed. Why wouldn't that be the case? Bethesda's games are always full of these little idiotic details. I mean think about it. You say no other faction has an accessible die button, but the only faction that isn't easy to kill is the NCR (and that's just because they are a foreign power). Every other faction will just let you stroll into their headquarters and shoot their leader. People are remarkably easy to kill. And that's not just in NV. Do you remember how in Skyrim you were allowed to waltz around Castle Dour/Windhelm Palace even if you were a recognized member of the opposing faction? How there were only like 2 guards? And the list goes on: The fact that you can freely enter any house as long as the owner is inside even if you don't know the person and no one invites you. How you can join factions even if they would normally despise your character. How all factions want to earn your favor even if you're a total stranger that they would normally shoot on sight. How you always end up leading factions even though you're barely proficient in what they do...

Now, in regards to House choosing the wrong people to run the casino's. I see what you're saying, but looking at the factions that exist in the wasteland, I'm not sure that there's much to choose from. You mention vault 18 (I'm assuming you meant 21, because there's no vault 18 in NV), but those are the people you want as clients, not running the casino (remember that vault was filled with gambling addicts). The Kings didn't existed back then. Also, I don't understand people's fixation with the Kings; they're a gang of thugs dressed as Elvis, what makes you think they'd make a good choice for running a casino? Then there's the Followers of the apocalypse. Don't mistake being good people with being able to run a business. The followers are a charity dedicated to medicine. I don't think they'd even accept the offer to run a casino. They seem to deeply dislike the entire gambling/whoring/drinking environment. And if you want to put the Khans in charge, you might as well put the fiends in charge.

I get it that the Omertas might seem like a strange choice, but you gotta see it from a gameplay perspective. There's got to be some flaws in the factions in order to be conflict and choices, otherwise there'd be nothing to do. Would be the game actually be more fun if the Omertas were noble? Would it be if there was no problems to solve in the Ultra Luxe? It'd feel kind of empty.

And when it comes to war, it started because people were running out of resources. You make resources plentiful (such as, for instance, by colonizing other planets) and you eliminate any need for war.

I agree with you. I think the writers can't be excused... they can be blamed. Obsidian could have fixed that one little detail. It would have been so easy to give House some guards. it'd take me seconds in the geck if it doesn't crash or lock up, to put a securitron guarding House. Anything at all, anything, to make it so he isn't just a button click to kill and make him into something plausible instead of mindlessly stupidly trusting. It would have been so easy... so easy that there's just no excuse.
Caesar had guards. There's no reason to make House so much easier to kill than any other important character. None. I'm not likely to change my mind on this.

Actually, i have to disagree about House. In both parts - rewarding courier and easy kill.
As for rewards - well Benny is first, courier is second as a protegee of House. After Benny betrayal, why exactly House have to trust courier? Live of the courier will be short after battle. Not to mention, that popularity and influence of the courier is faar bigger, than Benny's. As a dictator, House must eliminate anyone, that can take his place.
As for easy kill - well even more than Caesar, House think as a god for himself.Immortal god. Main reason, why it is not so heavily defended. More than that - only courier is allowed to enter the Lucky. That's why he do not have so many defenses/defenders.
As for King - yes they are thugs. But, they are only faction, that maintain order in Freeside. And ppl respect them.
Followers - they are and will be doctors and teachers.
And last - casinos. Back then, in Vegas all casinos was actually run by mafia.No difference here. U do not need to gain full control for what happens inside and who run them. U need your  share and to control what goes in and out. If they follow some rules,most of the time, u do not actually care who is in charge, as long as they remember, that u are,for them, capo-di-tutti-capi.

@"d_ahat"

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As for rewards - well Benny is first, courier is second as a protegee of House. After Benny betrayal, why exactly House have to trust courier? Live of the courier will be short after battle. Not to mention, that popularity and influence of the courier is faar bigger, than Benny's. As a dictator, House must eliminate anyone, that can take his place.

OK... Except that's not what happens. I mean, dude, we know exactly what happens to the courier after the Battle; the games tells us. The Courier goes to live as king in the Lucky 38. House provides him with every possible luxury available. If you finish with good Karma it even adds that House is proud of himself for choosing you as his second in command, and proud of you for what you accomplished. And that he isn't showering you in money simply because of a contractual obligation but a real sense of gratitude for helping him.

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As for easy kill - well even more than Caesar

Is it? Caesar is really easy to kill. Every single faction leader is insanely easy to kill. I certainty found the Securitrons more of a Challenge than the Praetorian Guard.

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As for King - yes they are thugs. But, they are only faction, that maintain order in Freeside. And ppl respect them.
Followers - they are and will be doctors and teachers.

Do they? Every time I enter freeside there's some hobo trying to kill me; not much order there is you ask me. Also, I don't think I found as single NPC that says anything positive about the kings.

Well, i'm not going to argue. It's just my point of view.
That's exactly what i mean - game tell us!
On one hand - u say - game is not good here and there , on other hand you follow by the book, what game says.
Kings - how many times King members attack Freeside thugs? But, they are not everywhere.
King say, that he HAS to charge ppl for the water, or NCR will shut that pump.And -how many NCR/Securitrons u see in Freeside?
What game says about end is illogical at most part. Just 2 examples:
Legion end - FEMALE courier join the Legion!!!
Independence end - Riots! I do not remember , that there was mass riots, when USA state independence.
Well, no idea - but i think it's harder to kill some Praetorian guards, with bare hands, than to kill several Securitrons at full gear.

Anyway, that's what i like in FNV - it's up to you to choose. You can even kill, if u want, House, almost at end, doing NCR quests meanwhile. And it's for you to choose what side to support.
What we need is just more options and better endings.

@"d_ahat" So, I don't want this to sound like I'm attacking you or being rude (I know meaning can be lost on text) but I'm genuinely having some trouble understanding what you mean...

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On one hand - u say - game is not good here and there , on other hand you follow by the book, what game says.

I don't know you what you're referring to here. Everything I've said so far is based on what's in the game. If you're talking about what I was saying to Sirdanest, all I meant was that I don't think House's notorious lack of security is supposed to be a subtle storytelling trick to tell us about his personalty. It's just Bethesda being Bethesda. A glaring lack of security for important characters is sort of their thing.

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how many NCR/Securitrons u see in Freeside?

Neither the NCR nor House rule Freeside. Not unless you complete their questline, in which case they'll annex it.

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What game says about end is illogical at most part

OK... but it's the story the devs made. I mean, I also think there's plenty of stuff in the game that doesn't make any sense, but it's not my story. You gotta go with what the game says otherwise that's a completely different conversation because you're just arguing fan fiction.

I can't respond to anything else, man, because I honestly didn't understand any of the other points you were trying to make. Sorry.

+1 for admitting, that plenty of stuff do not make any sense.
And no,i'm not just arguing fan fiction,whatever u mean by that:)
Yes i can say more and point more , but...i saw at nexus discord 2-3 vanilla purist arguing ...2-3-4 hours about a 1(one)chem, and really i do not want to be part of such thing.

I see your point with Mr. House, he does seem like the most logical choice. When breaking down the factions you can side with and some of the side factions I look at it like this:

NCR: annex land that isn't properly theirs then tax the people they stole the land from, smells a little like the U.S Government with American Indians. That little plan of theirs paints a beautiful picture for eventual civil war. Their trade network is extensive which is how they became as powerful as they are.

Legion: Like you said, ISIS larping (funniest thing I've read about the Legion by the way). They assimilate other tribes and enslave the rest. We have seen throughout history that a society built on slavery is not sustainable, which is why this faction offers no future and is no viable.

Yes Man: Ok wildcard, we understand everyone loves a secret sociopath of a robot with smile. Only Fisto is a great friend than Yes Man. But what can Yes Man really do for you? Based off of your character you'll choose different factions, or none, to help you yes that is true. But what if all the factions say adios after the battle? You are left with a robotic army that does not have human emotions nor can they convey true leadership like you would need in a society. If you think a single program can run an entire society that is not designed to do so than go with Yes Man, I'm sure it'll work out fine. Maybe. Probably not. What if one virus spreads from one robot to another? Your entire military is disabled and then what?  

Mr House: Honestly, the guy is self righteous and kind of a prick. That being said, he was one the best minds prior to the bombs falling and still is in the Fallout NV timeline. He had been protecting NV from the bombs as well as outside influence for long enough to show he is able to have real influence. But how can a leader lead without leaving his shiny gold tower? House was easily disposed of by the Courier. Easily. Without House, the strip would have fallen long ago. Siding with him provides a future yes, but one contingent on House surviving which is not sustainable.  It's like if the NCR fell to shambles once Kimball was assassinated, would you want a society to fall based off of the death of one person? We also don't know how long House can live in his little test tube if it is a forever thing or just until his drugs run out (I think we don't know correct me if I am wrong). House also allows cannibalism happen right in his own backyard so there's that.

Now for the side factions:

Brotherhood: Yeah, no. Just no. Stealing technology so others can't use it for evil seems all well and good but the Brotherhood would rather kill to stop future killing than settle things peacefully, the hypocrisy is evident.

Boomers: They can boom boom and can fly, weary of outsiders. Not entirely crazy but just crazy enough.

Khans: The NCR already blew half of them to kingdom come so they can't effectively run more than Red Rock.

Kings: Actually wouldn't be the *worst idea*, they protect Freeside while maintaining as much order as possible. Yeah they are also kinda jerks sometimes and not the best morally as well as their beef with the NCR, but they do try their best and succeed to some extent. Unless you side with the NCR and decide to light the place up. They charge people for water which is a massive issue, among others, but one I'm sure a high charisma character or Fisto's charm can fix that.

Any other faction such as the Crimson Caravan (well actually maybe), Followers, DLC factions, and and so on do not have the resources to sustain New Vegas or more than the current lands they posses.

It's really hard to figure out who to get help from, who to help, and overall who to choose to run Vegas. The thing is, all the factions are not sustainable in way one or another. The NCR are thieves, Legion is full of rapists and wanna be Zues, Yes Man is more like No Man, and House could kick the bucket at any second. It's really hard to choose for me. I guess it depends on who you think would be the best authoritarian and would bring the most order to the Mojave. Your morals also have to be put into question because no matter what you pick there is a chance it might be a bad time. I do believe Mr. House is one of the better options yes, but also could be one the least sustainable out there.