Boy has that game been a fail. Makes you wonder how are there people who still play it. But after a... let's say "difficult" start, some people say it's getting better and better with every update.

I don't know. I kind of wish it was good. At the same time, the lack of mods - which Bethesda heavily relies on these days - and the cascade of questionable decisions from the team ever since the game came out doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Does anyone think it might eventually become good? Or is it completely dead?

@gavin gold i'd like to think it will everyone hated on ESO in launch and now anyone who still hates it likely has a personal reason or is just part of the hate bandwagon and will have never played it, so i think it's possible it'll become a staple, it does strike me as only being fun with friends though, like DICE's battlefront 2

Eh, I play it, and I can enjoy it for what it is. The story is actually pretty good, I'd argue one of the most compelling in Fallout, it's just delivered without the usual world dressing we are used to (human NPCs and settlements) that really make things immersive. At times you feel more like an archeologist digging through the world space than anything else.

That said it is a buggy mess, still, that would be barely stable to release and charge full price for today in a sane and healthy gaming world.

We'll have to see if Wastelanders offers much. It's either going to give the game a new lease on life or it's going to be several hours of content and a load of human-shaped bloodbags to shoot with less green-crystal protrusions.

@Alixen While I'm still glad I never wasted money on it, I'm glad Beth is at least trying to make an engaging experience out of the game

People are still playing it and the devs are still trying to do new stuff but you can't help but be concerned that the micro transactions in it is bordering EA scummy. Almost pay to win.

I would suggest just to watch the development of the game until you see something that is enjoyable to you or to watch out if they are going to implement a grindy mechanic that would require you to use that shop.

@"Kaiser Atlas" Maybe, but dude, you know, everything is fun with friends. It should be able to stand up on its own

@"Alixen" I will make the argument, that that isn't really story, that's lore. Although if you enjoy it, by all means, don't let technicality get in the way.

To me the problem starts with the fact that many of the bugs are carried over from FO4, even though they are already fixed in the unofficial patch. I mean, come on, the community fixes those mistakes for them and they can't even implement them in their game? How lazy can they get? I keep thinking about buying it, then I come back to that and I just can't support that level of laziness.

@"Tribal Raven" Are they though? It seems like if they wanted to make it an enjoyable experience, first thing they'd do is fix the damn bugs, rather than spend their time coming up with new useless items to sell in the store.

@"ahyuser001" That ingame shop is what keeps me really pessimistic not only about the chances of the game getting better, but of future titles, because it tells a lot about where their heads are.

Look, it's not like I resent them for trying to make a buck. By all means, it's their business. But at least put some effort into the damn thing. A lot of those items are straight up taken from FO4. And the prices are outrageous. I've seen items as mundane as paint jobs priced higher than full games.

@gavin gold I don't really have issues with micro transactions in general as I see it as a good monetization scheme especially for free or really old games that people want updated however it becomes scummy when you are paying for "convenience" especially if a game has a grindy mechanic.

This feature attracts unhealthy purchases from whales and kids who don't know how to spend money. I just hope that the Fallout 76 devs stops at that fridge but I am pessimistic about it.

I'm personally never going to go near a Bethesda fallout or elder scrolls game that can't be modded heavily. I don't play their games without mods, would be miserable doing so.

I only ever bought the game for the collectors edition helmet, played it once and instantly uninstalled it after a few hours, it’s pure garbage in my opinion and I have little hope for it, props to Bethesda for having the balls to even make the game, it’s just a shame it didn’t turn out as intended, maybe if they stopped catering to their new fans and actually listened to the community, it would be good, but until then, it’s safe to say it’s dead. ):

They might have decided that pleasing the original fans is never going to happen. I don't think they're capable of doing it, even if it were truly their sole goal. They'd screw it up somehow, even then, and people would be mad.

@"Sirdanest" Dude, here's the thing. In all fairness, fans can be assholes. We've talked about it a bit, and I've told you that I think there's a lot of undeserved hate towards FO4. But in this case, digging into the whole fiasco, I don't find that they're being unreasonable. Like I said before, FO76 carries the bugs from FO4, even though those bugs are already fixed in FO4 by the community patch. All they had to do is copy what the community did and they couldn't even be bothered with that. And that's just a tiny fraction of the problems. So, yeah fans can be hard to please, but I don't think that's the situation, I think this is just Bethesda's worst behavior getting worse and worse with time.

@gavin gold No matter what FO76 is like right now, Beth just kept shooting themselves in the foot time and time again until they had lost an entire leg.

My hope is that PR was so f-ing terrible for this game that they have no choice but to work their asses off on their next game to make it good (most likely Starfield).

NPC's are coming....Mabey that might save it who knows?

Massive managed to salvage The Division after a few months and make it more enjoyable than at launch. Games have risen from their shitty status before (Except Anthem....that shits dead forever now)

gavin gold wrote:

@Sirdanest Dude, here's the thing. In all fairness, fans can be assholes. We've talked about it a bit, and I've told you that I think there's a lot of undeserved hate towards FO4. But in this case, digging into the whole fiasco, I don't find that they're being unreasonable. Like I said before, FO76 carries the bugs from FO4, even though those bugs are already fixed in FO4 by the community patch. All they had to do is copy what the community did and they couldn't even be bothered with that. And that's just a tiny fraction of the problems. So, yeah fans can be hard to please, but I don't think that's the situation, I think this is just Bethesda's worst behavior getting worse and worse with time.

Yeah, it sounds like the criticism of '76 is valid (I haven't played it, it sounds awful). But the decision to move on to new fans might have happened way before that. I also agree that F4, while it had flaws, didn't deserve the endless extreme hate it got. If I'd been Bethesda, the extreme hate leveled at it would have made me throw up my hands and go looking for new fans.

It's actually likely a combination of them deciding to deliberately look for new fans/knowingly ignore the lore, etc., and just a general slide into lazy crappiness. Both are happening at the same time. They are getting worse and lazier, and also are probably trying to draw in new fans with very little respect to keeping the old ones who care deeply about the lore. '76 sounds like it was incredibly lazy (A fallout game with no complex npcs or towns or plot?!), AND likely deliberately threw out the lore with little regard to how mad it would make older fans.

I'm pretty sure we're never going to see a return to Morrowind's complexity... skills AND ability scores, a complex combat system that wasn't just clicking (depending on which weapon you were using at least - some were much simpler than others), and more body locations for clothes and armor than I've seen anywhere else in a vanilla game since. Bethesda is busy abandoning these things in their games, while at the same time making better animations and better companions with each game they put out (other than '76.)

@Sirdanest Both with Skyrim and FO4, Bethesda tried to move away from RPG's and more into Action/Adventure. You know what? That kind of makes sense from their perspective. RPG's are more niche. Most player (me included) like some freedom to create our characters but don't like the repetitiveness of menial tasks, having to pull out a calculator in order to figure out the best builds, and all the endless grinding that comes with an RPG. It's nice to have them simplify those things and instead work into improving what most people care about the most: visuals and combat.

Now, I can understand why someone who's a huge fan of RPG's wouldn't like that. And so, yeah, they would like to try and get new fans. Problem is, if what you want is new fans, what you do is you completely change the formula (say abandon the traditional fallout feel for something more akin to CoD), but you do it with something really good that attracts tons of new fans. It's hard to see how an awful product will get them there. If your first introduction to the Fallout is FO76, I don't see you sticking with the franchise. FO76 is not nearly different enough to shake the old fans and capture a new audience (you gotta go full miley cyrus for that), or nearly good enough. It's just awful.

What's weird is that they _could_ have tried to replicate their Elder Scrolls Online success... in fact a new mmo is almost a paint-by-numbers affair, as the MMOs have been done so many times. It should be easy to be at least average in the mmo world. But it sounds like they fell way, waaay short of even an average mmo, which is weirdly inexcusable. And it's not like they they failed because of a risky innovation either. Big game corporations often have a reputation for laziness and "easy money", but this seems like it went beyond that.

Never played it. I get the appeal, but Fallout isn't really a game I play with friends. If anything games like Fallout are my break from people. I'm dealing with them all the time at work, so it's nice to relax in the evening and have a break, lol.
I doubt they'll just give up on it. They'll keep going on with updates and I'm sure will make it into something people will enjoy, or at least something that will fill a niche for the people who've always wanted a co-op fallout. If anything, what I've seen of recent updates, the PvP arena and NPCs being added, they're trying to turn it into a generalised MMO, with something to appeal to everyone, which isn't a bad idea, but again, it isn't really Fallout to me.

I have to agree with Revan there, it's not really a Fallout to me with it being an MMO, now a co-op one similar to Borderlands wouldn't have been too bad, but still wouldn't have been "high" on my list.

The biggest killer of F76 to me was that I started playing and oh boy ... bugs that where fixed by UF4P ver 1 suddenly appearing, and when trying to go through the town to the south ... lag-fest galore.

Oh, and the fire station there, I was stuck there and died there several times because of a Sorchbeast that kept attacking me, that I couldn't do anything about, even the protective robots died as well.

So yeah, if F76 was single, it would be up there with my "wait a year for GECK to come out and the guys to fix bugs" but with it currently, I wish I could have gotten a refund, I don't think I will touch it again, and it burnt the bridge between me and Bethesda for Pre-orders (I have a very small list, now it's smaller.)

Quote :

The biggest killer of F76 to me was that I started playing and oh boy ... bugs that where fixed by UF4P ver 1 suddenly appearing

^^ This. They make millions of dollars but they still couldn't be bothered to simply copy what the community did for them for free. This is why I'm pessimistic about their future releases. For crying out loud Bethesda, have some respect for your own product.

F76 is a non-starter for me, and will probably be the reason I'm done will (new) official Fallout games. There is enough modded, New California, F4NV, Capital Wastland, etc. to keep me going.

I simply will not invest my time, and money, into a product that is falsely advertised, F76 and NMS are the two worst at this, and will not 'hang around' for enough bug-fixes and content patches to make the game(s) what was originally promised in the marketing / advertising.

Either do the job right or release it as Beta for 1/3rd the price.