I'm seriously tired of these updates for things that I don't even use that break my game. Some of my mods require F4SE to work and when they decide to "update" the game in order to try to sell a mod and nothing else, it's infuriating. Does anyone know if the latest one was forcibly installed on our computers again? Because if so I'm going to find a free BSA file or whatever they're called to be able to play the mod I now legally own.

Yeah, honestly i don't even mind the mods on the CC since i don't have to buy them since i don't want to and even having them downloaded to my pc without being able to use them isn't really that big of a deal to me since i have a lot of space on my hard drive but the updates constantly breaking most of the other mods is really annoying since it pretty much means that i can't play until f4se gets updated

If I was the F4SE team I would abandon it and focus my efforts towards other projects like possibly SKSE64 (of course, if that doesn't get broken by CC too in the near future). Alternatively, if I was Bethesda/Zenimax, I would remove Creation Club and swear a binding oath towards the modding community to never let it happen again.

This is just another nail in the coffin for CC, I personally hope Bethesda keep making these blunders so more people rise up against this abomination.

My F4SE is still working fine. Perhaps the update hasn't been released in my region or something? Though I'm pretty sure they're absolute.

Either way, you can't blame Bethesda for patching they're own games, the mods technically aren't official and if the platform does need to be updated, it needs to be updated. Bethesda aren't gonna get rid of or apologise for Creation Club, if all they wanna do is release content they expect people to pay for, when there are free alternatives available, then I say the choice is entirely yours. Unless Bethesda try enforcing anything on the modding community at large, like taking down mods, or the Nexus or something, I say it's fine.

The forcibly downloading thing is the only real issue here, but other than that, people really need to stop blowing this out of proportion. It's becoming a pedantic issue.

Bethesda will never learn, not only do we not want anything to do with paid mods, we're forced to download them, breaking F4SE, regardless of if we want to or not. What will it take for them to stop CC?

IRORIEH wrote:

My F4SE is still working fine. Perhaps the update hasn't been released in my region or something? Though I'm pretty sure they're absolute.

Either way, you can't blame Bethesda for patching they're own games, the mods technically aren't official and if the platform does need to be updated, it needs to be updated. Bethesda aren't gonna get rid of or apologise for Creation Club, if all they wanna do is release content they expect people to pay for, when there are free alternatives available, then I say the choice is entirely yours. Unless Bethesda try enforcing anything on the modding community at large, like taking down mods, or the Nexus or something, I say it's fine.

The forcibly downloading thing is the only real issue here, but other than that, people really need to stop blowing this out of proportion. It's becoming a pedantic issue.

_
Uh, dude - forcible downloading is exactly the issue here, Sherlock!

I've gotta say, I find your attitude on the subject rather odd, considering GUN is a mod-oriented site. I don't think the issue is being blown out of proportion, at least from a modder's perspective - F4SE is, for many of us, a must have, and when Bethesda pushes a patch for their online hustle racket (rather than the game itself), breaking the script extender damn near every time, it goes beyond "minor annoyance." Modding keeps Bethesda's games alive (I mean srsly, look at New Vegas for christ's sake) and they've reaped tremendous financial benefit from it; crapping all over their most loyal and vocal customers is the worst kind of bad business move - no real gain, only potential loss.

IMO they should relegate CC to the consoles for the near term, and then provide PC users a voluntary opt-in type of thing - those who want it will totally have access, and those who don't aren't having their games broken out of the blue.

toolio20 wrote:

IRORIEH wrote:

My F4SE is still working fine. Perhaps the update hasn't been released in my region or something? Though I'm pretty sure they're absolute.

Either way, you can't blame Bethesda for patching they're own games, the mods technically aren't official and if the platform does need to be updated, it needs to be updated. Bethesda aren't gonna get rid of or apologise for Creation Club, if all they wanna do is release content they expect people to pay for, when there are free alternatives available, then I say the choice is entirely yours. Unless Bethesda try enforcing anything on the modding community at large, like taking down mods, or the Nexus or something, I say it's fine.

The forcibly downloading thing is the only real issue here, but other than that, people really need to stop blowing this out of proportion. It's becoming a pedantic issue.

_
Uh, dude - forcible downloading is exactly the issue here, Sherlock!

I've gotta say, I find your attitude on the subject rather odd, considering GUN is a mod-oriented site. I don't think the issue is being blown out of proportion, at least from a modder's perspective - F4SE is, for many of us, a must have, and when Bethesda pushes a patch for their online hustle racket (rather than the game itself), breaking the script extender damn near every time, it goes beyond "minor annoyance." Modding keeps Bethesda's games alive (I mean srsly, look at New Vegas for christ's sake) and they've reaped tremendous financial benefit from it; crapping all over their most loyal and vocal customers is the worst kind of bad business move - no real gain, only potential loss.

IMO they should relegate CC to the consoles for the near term, and then provide PC users a voluntary opt-in type of thing - those who want it will totally have access, and those who don't aren't having their games broken out of the blue.

But my point is that I find that the only real issue. So no need to get snappy.

You don't want the mods, don't buy them. Simple as, simple is. The true issue arises when they begin actively taking down mods on the internet, which they haven't done up to now. As I said before, more mods than F4SE break when the game updates, it's always been that way. Yeah it sucks, but they will be updated in due time. As I have said numerous times, Creation Club is a scalping tactic designed in the theme of numerous other games, like Bethesda's own games, to squeeze more money out of fans. I think it's silly to waste your money on it, but if anyone chooses to do so, I'm not going to crucify them. It becomes a true issue when it effects the modding community directly, but no amount of echo chambered annoyance is going to stop Bethesda, and that extends to any company, from EA to Bungie, Micro Transactions are becoming increasingly popular, which is why I avoid games that force you to partake in them. So far though that's not Bethesda's path.

Yeah I think the forcible downloads is dumb, and a wasteful, cheap move, but it's not something I can't work around. I think your arguement about relegating it to consoles is worse though. Consoles will suffer far worse from a lack of storage space than PC users. THey should just make it a download based service, instead of unlocking content. The idea is, I agree, entirely stupid and poorly handled. Like I've said, until Creation Club becomes a threat to modding as a whole, it's not the end of the world.

So, yeah... Don't panic too much, eh? Maybe instead of worrying about how much Bethesda wants to charge you for their crappy recolours, go donate that cash to your favourite mod authors. Or don't. It is, at the end of the day, entirely choice based.

Other than the downloading. Though as I've said, the system sucks.

@IRORIEH I think you misunderstand me a bit, brosephus - my intent wasn't to be "snappy," but rather point out that the forced downloading - which I will from here on out most dramatically be referring to as Data Rape - is pretty much the main issue, rather than a collateral one.

As far as the consoles go, again, I think you misunderstand - I don't advocate the Data Rape of anyone, even our charmingly "special" console brethren. What I was trying - and I guess failed - to infer was that if Bethesda can work out the kinks in a non-offensive way on those resource limited platforms then it shouldn't take much to subsequently migrate such a system* to PC. In the meantime, mod life could continue on unabated. Also: the periodic version updates which historically necessitate an update to xxSE are a far different creature from the garbaggio CC shenanigans.

* IRORIEH wrote:

THey should just make it a download based service, instead of unlocking content.

We're pretty much in agreement on most things, although I'm absolutely 180° from you on giving Bethesda a Data Rape via Meaningless Updates pass 'cause muh biznuss...

I'm not sure about y'all but on my pc nothing new was downloaded until I snagged the free paintjob. The doom suit & the bfg files weren't anywhere in my data folder. I checked and rechecked nothing new was added. Fallout didn't even update on my end for some reason.

Dunno when it was pushed but as soon as I logged onto my pc my steam loaded up and Fallout had updated to accommodate the damned CC that I won't use.

Fortunately after the last one I disabled updates so I am ok for now. I encourage ya to do the same in future

@IRORIEH

>Either way, you can't blame Bethesda for patching they're own games

But they aren't patching the game. They just forcibly download the mods to our computers. No bug fixes whatsoever. They're pretty much done with FO4. They're releasing the "game of the year" edition(a few years late mind you) and then that means they are done with making content for it. They stopped adding/fixing shit a while back and the GOTY is just a final cash grab. The only thing they're going to do is push CC which they don't even make themselves.

The main issue is that they are forcibly downloading it onto us and it breaks our mods and forces us to hold content we can't use. That's a problem for many people. Everything else is relatively minor as it'll eventually blow up in their faces, but that doesn't mean we aren't mad about the other stuff or that we don't have a right to be.

Wertologist wrote:

@IRORIEH

>Either way, you can't blame Bethesda for patching they're own games

But they aren't patching the game. They just forcibly download the mods to our computers. No bug fixes whatsoever. They're pretty much done with FO4. They're releasing the "game of the year" edition(a few years late mind you) and then that means they are done with making content for it. They stopped adding/fixing shit a while back and the GOTY is just a final cash grab. The only thing they're going to do is push CC which they don't even make themselves.

The main issue is that they are forcibly downloading it onto us and it breaks our mods and forces us to hold content we can't use. That's a problem for many people. Everything else is relatively minor as it'll eventually blow up in their faces, but that doesn't mean we aren't mad about the other stuff or that we don't have a right to be.

I know, as I've said in that very post, it's the real issue, but at the end of the day, if Bethesda update their game and it breaks something, at the end of the day, it's entirely on them, and it's their call to do so. Just wait for a patch for that mod. Most thing like F4SE are patched within a few days. It sucks and it's not fair, but you can't stop the company from messing with their own shit. Perhaps this will simply make Bethesda realise how bad this system is, though likely not. I agree that there is no benefit to having these items pre-downloaded, but it's on Bethesda's head.

My F4SE works fine and it says auto updates disabled. I will stay that way hopefully for all eternity!!

only good thing about cc is new occasional free content that dont take mod space for console ghamers

@IRORIEH I really don't know what you're trying to say here. You sound like you're complaining about people complaining, but then saying it's justified. You also keep saying "update", but it's only true in the sense that they added something. No bug fixes whatsoever. Just paid mods. That's not really an update. It'd be different if the "updates" adding things like bug fixes, but they don't.

>It sucks and it's not fair, but you can't stop the company from messing with their own shit.

Except nothing stops us from voicing our displeasure and telling Bethesda to undo it. They have every right not to listen to us, but we're the target consumer base so if they don't make us happy, their sales will hurt. This is basic stuff. You saying to not bother defeats the whole general idea of this site.

Wertologist wrote:

@IRORIEH I really don't know what you're trying to say here. You sound like you're complaining about people complaining, but then saying it's justified. You also keep saying "update", but it's only true in the sense that they added something. No bug fixes whatsoever. Just paid mods. That's not really an update. It'd be different if the "updates" adding things like bug fixes, but they don't.

>It sucks and it's not fair, but you can't stop the company from messing with their own shit.

Except nothing stops us from voicing our displeasure and telling Bethesda to undo it. They have every right not to listen to us, but we're the target consumer base so if they don't make us happy, their sales will hurt. This is basic stuff. You saying to not bother defeats the whole general idea of this site.

I am complaining about people overcomplaining. That is precisely what I'm doing when I'm saying not to blow it out of proportion. It is justified, of course, but people are treating it like the most agregious thing to ever happen ever. My point is that it isn't.

This site isn't about rallying against Bethesda selling dumb content, is it? The bigger message to send Bethesda is not by complaining in a place where those complaints will likely never be seen by them, but by not giving money to them. Cash speaks louder than forum posts. My point is that this is a retorted arguement, of an arguement that has been laid out before. Nothing new is being brought to the discussion aside from bits of rumors that are often made to sound worse than they actually are. I think my point is pretty straight forward but you're ignoring what I'm saying. It's not as bad as it sounds, the sytem is new, they're still ironing out issues. They're not going to destroy the community or take down mods, they're just trying to make money, and probably will in spite of themselves or their crappy system.

I can think there are issues with something, while also accepting it. The point I've made, post after post to ad nauseam at this point, is not to get so worked up over this. So far it hasn't affected the modding community. It has forced downloads on people and I'm not validating that, I'm just willing to accept it. I'm capable of looking at this from their point of view, and that doesn't mean I think it's right, but I'm just not going to overreact. People just need to relax.

@IRORIEH But nobody here is blowing it out of proportion.

> It is justified, of course, but people are treating it like the most agregious thing to ever happen ever.

Nobody here is doing that.

>This site isn't about rallying against Bethesda selling dumb content, is it?

No, it's about a community of game and mod enthusiasts. Haven't met one person here who was happy about CC and most seem to be against it because most modders are against paid mods.

>The bigger message to send Bethesda is not by complaining in a place where those complaints will likely never be seen by them, but by not giving money to them.

Feedback is important. Telling everyone to just stop complaining and talk with their wallets isn't the best option. If you don't like a service, you express how and why. That's basic consumerism.

>Nothing new is being brought to the discussion aside from bits of rumors that are often made to sound worse than they actually are.

Which I've never heard of any rumors. Everything I hear about CC is fact. I don't believe I saw anything that could be considered a rumor in this thread so complaining about it being a problem here is rather pointless.

>I think my point is pretty straight forward but you're ignoring what I'm saying.

No, I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say because you started out by complaining about people complaining and then saying that we are justified.

>It's not as bad as it sounds, the sytem is new, they're still ironing out issues.

So I'm not allowed to be annoyed that they keep forcibly installing mods onto my computer that I can't access and end up breaking other mods for the sole purpose of them trying to get more money? Nobody here claimed it was the end of the world so you coming here to complain about that is pointless. You wouldn't go to a library and complain to people about the loud people in another library as if it's the other peoples' fault would you?

>The point I've made, post after post to ad nauseam at this point, is not to get so worked up over this.

And nobody was/is. Nobody here is raging or anything so complaining about it here is pretty pointless. The most people said was that it was annoying and frustrating because it is. That's not getting worked up.

>So far it hasn't affected the modding community.

That's the thing. So far. In the long run, it will. Other developers will jump on the bandwagon of paid mods because why wouldn't they? I could eventually see them trying to make it so you have to at least pay to be able to mod it by yourself or pay for the creation kit.

>I'm capable of looking at this from their point of view, and that doesn't mean I think it's right, but I'm just not going to overreact. People just need to relax.

You're making it sound like nobody here can see things from their view. Just because we're annoyed by their choices doesn't mean we can't understand them. We just don't feel the need to explain it as it's pretty obvious. They want money and the mod community is an untapped gold mine that will make them money if they can sell them. I completely understand why they are doing it. It doesn't mean I have to be happy about it or mean that I can't speak my mind about it. Same with everyone. For the most part, people here are pretty calm about it. We're just annoyed that they're trying this again. You're almost hostile to people in this thread because we're annoyed. You're berating us and taking your frustration out on us for something we didn't do.

Wertologist wrote:

@IRORIEH But nobody here is blowing it out of proportion.

> It is justified, of course, but people are treating it like the most agregious thing to ever happen ever.

Nobody here is doing that.

>This site isn't about rallying against Bethesda selling dumb content, is it?

No, it's about a community of game and mod enthusiasts. Haven't met one person here who was happy about CC and most seem to be against it because most modders are against paid mods.

>The bigger message to send Bethesda is not by complaining in a place where those complaints will likely never be seen by them, but by not giving money to them.

Feedback is important. Telling everyone to just stop complaining and talk with their wallets isn't the best option. If you don't like a service, you express how and why. That's basic consumerism.

>Nothing new is being brought to the discussion aside from bits of rumors that are often made to sound worse than they actually are.

Which I've never heard of any rumors. Everything I hear about CC is fact. I don't believe I saw anything that could be considered a rumor in this thread so complaining about it being a problem here is rather pointless.

>I think my point is pretty straight forward but you're ignoring what I'm saying.

No, I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say because you started out by complaining about people complaining and then saying that we are justified.

>It's not as bad as it sounds, the sytem is new, they're still ironing out issues.

So I'm not allowed to be annoyed that they keep forcibly installing mods onto my computer that I can't access and end up breaking other mods for the sole purpose of them trying to get more money? Nobody here claimed it was the end of the world so you coming here to complain about that is pointless. You wouldn't go to a library and complain to people about the loud people in another library as if it's the other peoples' fault would you?

>The point I've made, post after post to ad nauseam at this point, is not to get so worked up over this.

And nobody was/is. Nobody here is raging or anything so complaining about it here is pretty pointless. The most people said was that it was annoying and frustrating because it is. That's not getting worked up.

>So far it hasn't affected the modding community.

That's the thing. So far. In the long run, it will. Other developers will jump on the bandwagon of paid mods because why wouldn't they? I could eventually see them trying to make it so you have to at least pay to be able to mod it by yourself or pay for the creation kit.

>I'm capable of looking at this from their point of view, and that doesn't mean I think it's right, but I'm just not going to overreact. People just need to relax.

You're making it sound like nobody here can see things from their view. Just because we're annoyed by their choices doesn't mean we can't understand them. We just don't feel the need to explain it as it's pretty obvious. They want money and the mod community is an untapped gold mine that will make them money if they can sell them. I completely understand why they are doing it. It doesn't mean I have to be happy about it or mean that I can't speak my mind about it. Same with everyone. For the most part, people here are pretty calm about it. We're just annoyed that they're trying this again. You're almost hostile to people in this thread because we're annoyed. You're berating us and taking your frustration out on us for something we didn't do.

I give up. Genuinely.

If you don't want the files delete the BSAs. No ones going to stop you from doing it, they're all in your data folder and they won't redownload unless you verify your content. Outside of that, nothing has happened. You not getting my point, still after all this time tells me you simply don't want to. At which point this arguement is pointless. Delete the files, wait for a F4SE patch and enjoy.

Until then, I have nothing more to say about the matter. If you don't think several thread on the same subject, echoing the same facts over and over and over is blowing it out or proportion, then I don't know if there's anything more left to say.

@IRORIEH

>If you don't want the files delete the BSAs. No ones going to stop you from doing it, they're all in your data folder and they won't redownload unless you verify your content.

They'll likely redownload in the next "update". Of course I can delete them again, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm also not sure if simply deleting them won't break the game somehow as if they just uploaded the data files then it wouldn't render F4SE broken. Installing regular mods won't break F4SE so my guess is that they're altering the core data or something to better suit their mods and that breaks F4SE.

I'm voicing my displeasure of it. I didn't ask how to get rid of it. In fact, I'm more interesting in making my own esp file for it so I can use it since it's a free mod. As a middle finger to Bethesda.

>You not getting my point, still after all this time tells me you simply don't want to

I'm not getting your point because you're flip flopping and not being clear. You complained about people complaining then said it was justified.

>If you don't think several thread on the same subject, echoing the same facts over and over and over is blowing it out or proportion, then I don't know if there's anything more left to say.

Nobody is blowing it out of proportion here so why do you keep saying it's an issue here? I haven't seen anyone exaggerating it on this site, but specifically no one has in this thread. Would you go into a friends house and berate them for things their neighbors are doing? Because that's kind of what you're doing here. You're scolding us for something we didn't do. Morgan Freeman forbid we are annoyed by CC. Your overall attitude wasn't very pleasant here. We're supposed to be a friendly gamer community here and you jumped to scold us for something we didn't even do.