jetpack4 wrote:

The Institute, while remaining underground, also has the best chance of securing mankinds place in the future. They are safe from the horrors of the wastes, such as Deathclaws and Super Mutants. These two species alone are a clear and present danger to the future of humanity, and as you know(If you played the original Fallout) The Master nearly used the Super Mutants to achieve this goal. Mankind, living in a sustainable and clean environment underground, can be guaranteed a future.

I acknowledge that an argument can be made against the Institute, in regards to the treatment of Synths. However, Synths can be dangerous. If they are rogue, they can be unpredictable, and can be assumed to be stronger than the average human. This threat must be managed, and kept under Institute control. An ample example for this is Gabriel, the escaped Synth, who after being mind wiped by the railroad, took over a raider gang and plundered the people of the Commonwealth. This is proof as to why Institute technology must be safely managed and controlled. Humanity must and will advance, but the fact that the Institute does try to carefully manage their technology, and even technology outside (Such as the Prototype Laser Weapon in University Point that could have allowed mass killing with advanced weaponry)is important to note.

They make the argument that they needed to be isolated in order to create the incredible things they have yet at the cost of the Commonwealth. The smartest minds in quite possibly the world have done nothing to aid the strife of the Commonwealth and that's horrendous. Fathers explanation that the Commonwealth is "dead" furthers their disconnect. Father and the Institute should have been using their superior technology and know how to create a utopia in the wastes. Instead they hid in the shadows creating an unstable top side and causing enemies to come to the Commonwealth.

When it comes to synths as people, they are. I would argue this is best seen with Curie being turned into a synth. Through her dialogue this machine inhabits a synth body and begins to think and feel just like a human being would. The Institute is afraid their synths, if not controlled, would cause harm just like Gabriel. However that argument shows that synths are the same as people as they have a capacity for evil just like a human being would.

@Lone True, the Institute does keep there tech to themselves and not help the wasteland above, which is greedy.

They are right to be that way tho. Like I said even Shaun's own Father can destroy them. Wonder what a Railroad spy, a Minutemen soldier, Raider or a BoS Knight can do to them.

Once everybody knows they're under the CIT Ruins and attacks them nobody can use their creations. So by helping the Commonwealth out, they're leaving themselves vulnerable and ruining the Commonwealth's last hope for the Future.

They tried to make peace above ground with the CPG, but that just descended into petty arguments.

Plus, the Commonwealth is a shitshow.

Lone wrote:

They make the argument that they needed to be isolated in order to create the incredible things they have yet at the cost of the Commonwealth. The smartest minds in quite possibly the world have done nothing to aid the strife of the Commonwealth and that's horrendous. Fathers explanation that the Commonwealth is "dead" furthers their disconnect. Father and the Institute should have been using their superior technology and know how to create a utopia in the wastes. Instead they hid in the shadows creating an unstable top side and causing enemies to come to the Commonwealth.

When it comes to synths as people, they are. I would argue this is best seen with Curie being turned into a synth. Through her dialogue this machine inhabits a synth body and begins to think and feel just like a human being would. The Institute is afraid their synths, if not controlled, would cause harm just like Gabriel. However that argument shows that synths are the same as people as they have a capacity for evil just like a human being would.

Those are some good points, however, I dont believe that Institute influence alone has been the creation of the Commonwealths Chaos and state of despair, in fact I doubt the Institutes influence alone could even save it. The Commonwealth is overrun with raiders, Gunners, Deathclaws and more, who operate outside the Institutes influence. The Institute doesnt actually have the Manpower to go marching across the wastes, as you can even see in their last defence when doing the BoS questline, they can throw very little, certainly not enough to stop the assault, and certainly not enough to begin an occupation of the Commonwealth. A better approach is probably striking from the shadows, infiltrating society in order to better it from the inside. IE Sammy in Goodneighbour "Stopped drinking and cheating on his wife." but the reaction to the Synth is likely how the wasteland would react to Institute offers of help, violently.

Now, Synths are a strange area for me. Its something ive actually struggled to form an opinion on IRL. If we're looking at Curie in particular, she was not a Snyth to begin with. She was a Miss Nanny, not a creation of the Institue, but of General Atomics International. Their robots seem to have an advanced personality matrix, and even a hint of AI, but I cant personally determine which it is. Synths in general, IE Glory, again, perplex me. I want to say, are programmed to think, feel and are machines, which are built in a factory for a singular purpose, and thus are property of the Institute, but that would be a lie. I cannot deny their humanity, but I also cannot say that it is not programmed, that there are not algorithms and code running determining how the synth will react. Its a gray area in my book.

Nuka world raider's because whom else is going to strip the flesh and salt the would ov the commonwealth but me and Gage

jetpack4 wrote:

Those are some good points, however, I dont believe that Institute influence alone has been the creation of the Commonwealths Chaos and state of despair, in fact I doubt the Institutes influence alone could even save it. The Commonwealth is overrun with raiders, Gunners, Deathclaws and more, who operate outside the Institutes influence. The Institute doesnt actually have the Manpower to go marching across the wastes, as you can even see in their last defence when doing the BoS questline, they can throw very little, certainly not enough to stop the assault, and certainly not enough to begin an occupation of the Commonwealth. A better approach is probably striking from the shadows, infiltrating society in order to better it from the inside.

I'm not saying they need to send an army across the Commonwealth, just that they should have done something. For example the Institute has teleportation technology, this could be used to transport food produce to settlements in the Commonwealth, instead it's used primarily as a weapon to transport Synths into battle.

jetpack4 wrote:

IE Sammy in Goodneighbour "Stopped drinking and cheating on his wife." but the reaction to the Synth is likely how the wasteland would react to Institute offers of help, violently.

Well, yeah, they reacted this way to Sammy because it was clear the Institute had killed and replaced him with a Synth, which is murder. Of course it's going to be met with violence. Sure, he wasn't the best human being, but the Institute didn't kill him because he's a bad person, they killed him to infiltrate Goodneighbor.

This is a tough question, as for me it boils down to which faction is going to be the best for not just the Commonwealth, but for humanity overall.

The Brotherhood of Steel seems, to me at least, to be nothing but glorified raiders. If you have tech they want, they're going to take it. If you're a threat to them, you're going to be destroyed. Now if they were similar to Lyon's Pride, I would have different feelings entirely. Lyon's Pride concerned itself with not just the goal of the Brotherhood, but for the general welfare of the population around them. I don't see this Brotherhood doing that. As it stands, I don't think the Brotherhood is a faction I'd back up.

The Institute is a lost cause. They have no concern with what happens in the Commonwealth and its people regardless of how many times Father claims that they have humanity's best interest at heart. I've never really received a good explanation as to why they felt the need to kill people and replace them with Synths. If they sought to spy on the Commonwealth, would it have not been easier to create a Synth with a completely individual personality and such and let him/her blend into society normally? Sure, they have technology that could benefit everyone, but they don't seem to be concerned with sharing.

The Railroad isn't a bad faction, in my opinion. I just don't think they have an end-game goal for humanity as a whole. Because of this, I don't wish to really back them. Say the Institute is destroyed and they manage to rescue all the Synths they can. What's their plan afterwards? What goals are they going to strive for once they complete their mission?

The Minutemen are only faction I would feel comfortable to back, to say the least. They have a general idea of protecting the people. Yes, their focus is on the Commonwealth at the moment, but who is to say they can't expand? It's a great principle to follow and it sets for the example for others. I can safely assume that if the Minutemen don't expand to the rest of the United States, then other factions that are basically carbon-copies may eventually show up as well. All it takes is one person with a good idea to start something.

Lone wrote:

I'm not saying they need to send an army across the Commonwealth, just that they should have done something. For example the Institute has teleportation technology, this could be used to transport food produce to settlements in the Commonwealth, instead it's used primarily as a weapon to transport Synths into battle.

Well, yeah, they reacted this way to Sammy because it was clear the Institute had killed and replaced him with a Synth, which is murder. Of course it's going to be met with violence. Sure, he wasn't the best human being, but the Institute didn't kill him because he's a bad person, they killed him to infiltrate Goodneighbor.

Both points true, and I agree, the Institute should have done something. I dont know if it was possible with the mistrust placed in the Institute, but I agree that the Institute should have tried.

Also true, the Institute killed and replaced him with a synth to infiltrate Goodneighbour. Their actions in certain cases have been terrible, but I want to know more about Sammy's character in general before I say whether or not it was worth it.

Its nice to be in a forum where people dont jump down your throat for having a different opinion. Thank you for the points, and thanks for being so courteous.

I hope this doesn't prove too controversial but the FO4 BoS kinda seemed like an Enclave-lite to me. The Institute seemed badly explained (why were they snatching people? why did they give synths the capacity to think freely in the first place if they wished to use them as slaves?). I got fed up of the minutemen very quickly through the settlement quests, and I disliked how quickly they made you a General. I kinda wish I sided with the Railroad tbh, although admittedly I didn't have much playtime with them.

@Corvo

Corvo wrote:

The Brotherhood do not kill innocent non-feral ghouls because they do not shoot Hancock or Charon on sight like they do Danse.

I seem to recall a lot of leering and blatantly racist / threatening remarks when I brought Hancock aboard the Prydwen. I can't remember very well, but isn't it noted somewhere that they would quite happily gun-down Strong, Hancock or Nick if the Sole Survivor wasn't accompanying them?

I only started playing fallout when the third one came out. My favorite faction is either minuteman or NCR(I personally prefer the former one more because NCR did some dirty work). However, based on the latest fallout 4 game, Railroad definitely has the best story and style. My character has a stealth build and it kinda fit in the railroad consider it is an underground organization. Railroads are not freedom fighters but more like a leninist revolutionary party.

Though I liked the Minutemen and what they we're trying to accomplish, other then helping settlements. I like the Brotherhood, just they've always been my go-to faction in every fallout just since playing FO3 and loving the shit outta em. But ye, BoS for the win

Mines is probably the NCR. They are really the only faction that can ostensibly restore order and government to the wasteland and get it to somewhat resemble pre war America. Next to them as my second favorite is the Enclave because they are pursuing the same goal but are much more extreme in their methods.

I would drop an atom bomb on all four of them if I could.

Brotherhood without question. When I first killed Kellogg and left Fort Hagen and lo and behold: the Prydwen! Talking and seeing Danse in power armor was cool but seeing a whole ARMY IN POWER ARMOR! That took my breath away and I... sorta fan boyed tbh. Don't get me wrong, the Minutemen are a close 2nd due to their noble goals. The Institute while being driven purely be knowledge, they use others for their own expense, which kinda sucks if ask me. The URR have their hearts in the right place but do not see the bigger picture. In the Capital Wasteland, Mojave, and other place, there was actual slavery. In the Nuka World DLC guess what. SLAVERY. I'm fine with them helping synths escape servitude, but when there's actually slavery? That's why I find it best to help both the URR only if I'm with the Minutemen. Now let tell rant about why I love the BOS.

I think that there are several flaws with the BOS but I think a lot of the people just take it out of context. Are they fascists? Well they really are not a gov't and I don't see them taking on that role any time soon. But I hear you and yes, there is certainly bigotry amongst the ranks. The bigotry is(normally) aimed towards the most vile and dangerous beings(?) in this POST- APOCALYPTIC world. Super mutants? Well, considering how almost all of them eat and devour humans, I'd say that I would hate them too. Feral ghouls are in the same boat. 'Normal' or non feral ghouls are looked down upon due to their appearance, and I agree that is BS( who doesn't love Hancock?). Now let's talk about synths. Gens 1 and 2 are robots so who cares, it's the third that everyone has their panties in a wad. The BOS's problem with the synths is that there is no telling who is controlling them. Also there could be agents within their ranks, such as Danse, and while loyal, they are a liability since it would be a greater chance for the Institute to recall him.

To finish this I'd feel like I'm missing leading people if I did not mention the Outcasts. The Eastern Chapter of the BOS was divided into two camps. One was Lyon's chapter, the other called themselves the Outcasts. Lyon, while believing in acquiring and preserving pre tech, was benevolent and wanted to help the people of the wastes. The Outcasts stuck to their old ways to collect tech. Somewhere between the games F3 and F4, Maxon became leader while both groups joined together. Thus merging their ideals. To make it more interesting, the Eastern BOS now accepts new initiates from the wastes which muddy the bigotry water that much more.